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Business Profile

New Car Dealers

Advantage Toyota of River Oaks

Complaints

Customer Complaints Summary

  • 20 total complaints in the last 3 years.
  • 7 complaints closed in the last 12 months.

If you've experienced an issue

Submit a Complaint

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

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Complaint status

Complaint type

  • Initial Complaint

    Date:04/17/2025

    Type:Service or Repair Issues
    Status:
    AnsweredMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    On 4/15/25 I went in to get an oil change. Along with the oil change, I was supposed to get a Multi-point inspection. I was also supposed to receive a video of my service during the appointment and after. I did not receive my multi-point inspection and I did not receive a video of my service. Because I never received a video, as far as I'm concerned, how am I sure that my oil change was even done. They have the videos in place for a reason. One reason is to send the customer updates and recommendations regarding their vehicle. When I voiced to the Manager of the service **** **** ****** and the assistant manager ******* ***** that I never received my video, they both assured me that the video was done and I would receive it the next day because the technician who did the video was gone for the day. I NEVER RECEIVED A VIDEO BECAUSE A VIDEO WAS NEVER DONE. After speaking to the General Manager, he verified that NO FOOTAGE WAS EVER OBTAINED. I was lied to by both the Manager and the assistant manager of the service ****. I was victimized by fraud, deception and poor business practices.

    Business Response

    Date: 04/22/2025

    Miss ****** did make us aware of her not receiving the inspection after her service. After looking up the vehicle inspection report, it would not allow it to be viewed due to the technician being locked inside of the report. Miss ****** was advised the inspection and video was complete, unfortunately it could not be viewed until the technician was removed from the inspection and sent to the advisor. We assured Miss ****** there were no recommendations that required immediate attention and the following day she would receive the inspection once the technician arrived for work. The next day, the tech and advisor were off, Miss ****** was made aware of the circumstances, and we would send her the inspection as soon as the tech and advisor arrived. We offered to go over the security camera to offer a peace of mind until we receive the inspection report. Miss ****** was sent the inspection report and video. We are also still willing to accommodate Miss ******. We attempted to add the multi point inspection report, but the file is too large to save.
  • Initial Complaint

    Date:01/29/2025

    Type:Service or Repair Issues
    Status:
    AnsweredMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    On January 20th, 2025 I had my 2010 RAV 4 towed to Advantage Toyota. I spoke to ****. We discussed the price of $6000. At first I told him that I would try to come up with it. I never gave them permission to repair my car. The next thing I know Im getting a call to pick up my car. I never told them to repair my truck because I didnt have $6000. So **** and I have been going back and forth. He went down in the price to $5000. I told him I dont have that. I told him I came up with $3000 he said if I could get that I can get the rest. Well I cant and this is week two that they have held my car from me. I need it to get to work Please help.

    Business Response

    Date: 02/11/2025

    On January ******** Ms. ****** had her 2020 RAV4 towed into Advantage Toyota at 10am.  The stated problem was "the vehicle was not accelerating/moving."  The vehicle was inspected the following day, it was concluded that the transmission was failing internally and needed replacement.  An estimate of repairs was made and communicated to Ms. ******* via phone call, on January 21st at 3:06pm.  She stated she would need to work on gathering the funds, she did not have $6000 at that time, just $3000.  She called back at 3:11pm to reconfirm the price of the repairs and find out how quickly could the repairs be completed.  She complained that she couldn't continue paying for the cost of ***** public transportation and pay for repairs too.  She needed the vehicle ASAP; she wanted it expedited if possible.  The Service Manager did not want to over-promise the repair time and said it would take 3-4 days.  Ms. ****** said "ok' and she would call back.  At 3:19pm she called again and stated that she would like to move forward with the repairs.  She continued explaining the urgency on receiving her vehicle ASAP because of her employment obligations, which I believe she states in her complaint.  

    During the same call, she stated that $3000 would be paid by her sister on a credit card and $3000 on her debit card.  She gave us her sisters phone number *************) to call her for the credit card information to collect $3000.  The service manager called her sisters phone number *************) to ask for the partial payment of $3000.  Ms. ******* sister said she was uncomfortable paying over the phone and that she would come by for payment.  The replacement transmission actually arrived the next day January 22, 2025, at 8am, ahead of schedule.  ****************** put an emphasis on the repairs being expedited, it was started immediately.  We completed the work on the same day.

    Ms. ****** was called and notified that the repairs were expedited and finished ahead of schedule.  ********** advisor called her excited to have completed the transmission installation ahead of schedule.  During the call, Ms. ****** said we proceeded to fast and that her sister was vacillating on helping with the repairs.  We informed her it was completed, and that we needed her and her sister to pay the $6000 before the vehicle could be released.  She now said the repairs were never approved and she wanted to tow her RAV4 out of our service department.  We informed her repairs had been completed based on our conversations; after some back and forth, in an attempt to help her, she was given a 17% discount off the price.  It was dropped to $5000.  She stated she didn't have the money and that we told her it would take 3-4 days not 1 day.  We told her it was expedited based on here needs to use for work, and her requests to complete ASAP.

    In conclusion, how would we have her sisters phone number if payment had not been agreed upon.  We believe she gave permission for repairs under assumption her sister was helping and looks like her sister had a change of heart.  Please let us know if anything else is needed to resolve this issue.

     

    Customer Answer

    Date: 02/26/2025

     
    Complaint: 22872470

    I am rejecting this response because:
    The business is not telling the truth. I have never given them consent to put in new transmission and also my car has been there since July 20th and I am concerned that something else will go wrong while it is just sitting at there place of business. 
    Sincerely,

    ****** ******

    Business Response

    Date: 03/10/2025

    During my 1st response...COPIED BELOW...everything was laid out.  In her complaint, she stated that her car was here, and she needed to get to work.  This was her theme speaking with the Service Manager, "I NEED TO GET TO WORK."  She admitted she didn't have the money only $3000.  She gave us her sisters phone number to call...how would we have the ability to call her sister if not given to us by Ms. ************* She said her sister would pay half, and when called, her sister just said she was uncomfortable giving a credit card number over the phone.  We can only assume her sister became uncomfortable with the situation.  I can only reiterate what has already been shared below.

     

    On January ******** Ms. ****** had her 2020 RAV4 towed into Advantage Toyota at 10am.  The stated problem was "the vehicle was not accelerating/moving."  The vehicle was inspected the following day, it was concluded that the transmission was failing internally and needed replacement.  An estimate of repairs was made and communicated to Ms. ******* via phone call, on January 21st at 3:06pm.  She stated she would need to work on gathering the funds, she did not have $6000 at that time, just $3000.  She called back at 3:11pm to reconfirm the price of the repairs and find out how quickly could the repairs be completed.  She complained that she couldn't continue paying for the cost of ***** public transportation and pay for repairs too.  She needed the vehicle ASAP; she wanted it expedited if possible.  The Service Manager did not want to over-promise the repair time and said it would take 3-4 days.  Ms. ****** said "ok' and she would call back.  At 3:19pm she called again and stated that she would like to move forward with the repairs.  She continued explaining the urgency on receiving her vehicle ASAP because of her employment obligations, which I believe she states in her complaint.  

    During the same call, she stated that $3000 would be paid by her sister on a credit card and $3000 on her debit card.  She gave us her sisters phone number *************) to call her for the credit card information to collect $3000.  The service manager called her sisters phone number *************) to ask for the partial payment of $3000.  Ms. ******* sister said she was uncomfortable paying over the phone and that she would come by for payment.  The replacement transmission actually arrived the next day January 22, 2025, at 8am, ahead of schedule.  ****************** put an emphasis on the repairs being expedited, it was started immediately.  We completed the work on the same day.

    Ms. ****** was called and notified that the repairs were expedited and finished ahead of schedule.  ********** advisor called her excited to have completed the transmission installation ahead of schedule.  During the call, Ms. ****** said we proceeded to fast and that her sister was vacillating on helping with the repairs.  We informed her it was completed, and that we needed her and her sister to pay the $6000 before the vehicle could be released.  She now said the repairs were never approved and she wanted to tow her RAV4 out of our service department.  We informed her repairs had been completed based on our conversations; after some back and forth, in an attempt to help her, she was given a 17% discount off the price.  It was dropped to $5000.  She stated she didn't have the money and that we told her it would take 3-4 days not 1 day.  We told her it was expedited based on here needs to use for work, and her requests to complete ASAP.

    In conclusion, how would we have her sisters phone number if payment had not been agreed upon.  We believe she gave permission for repairs under assumption her sister was helping and looks like her sister had a change of heart.  Please let us know if anything else is needed to resolve this issue.

    Customer Answer

    Date: 03/11/2025

     
    Complaint: 22872470

    I am rejecting this response because:

     

    I really feel that they are taking advantage of me. They still have my car and I still dont have that kind of money to put in to that old car. 

    Sincerely,

    ****** ******

  • Initial Complaint

    Date:11/25/2024

    Type:Service or Repair Issues
    Status:
    ResolvedMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    I purchased a 2024 Toyota Crown Platinum Hybrid. I purchased it will all of the warranties and ************** This cars exact price can be given with bill of sale but my loan now is about ********* I purchased it in April 2024.The car had been acting funny since I purchased it but I decided to take it to the dealership when the transmission powered down going only 16mph on a busy expressway an the lights on the dash board showed up (hybrid malfunction/and the transmission light would come on an this day was September 11th at 8:15am. I told **** what was going on and he assured me he'd check an make sure an fix the problem. They stated that they drove it 50miles with no problems. Cleared the codes an gave the car back to me . Told me if it consisted then bring it back a they would do further inspection . October 5th 8:07am , I bring the car in because it's doing the same exact thing. The repair manager **** states I'm the only person with these problems because mind you this is the second car I have purchased from them an it was having the same exact problems. So they say it's not the solenoids they checked wiring and found it was sprayed causing the codes. They replaced them drove the car 40miles returned to me on the 10/11/24 and the car should be fine. Told me it was transmission wires. November 8th at 8am same thing this time but even worse every light was on the dash board that was a bad light . The car wouldn't drive but i managed to drive 16mph to get it there from my job downtown ******* to ******* city. They have now had my car since then. I've been in contact with corporate/ warranty company/ arbitration . I was denied a buy back at first because ******* thought my car was back with me. I have been bamboozled with a lemon and I requested to just have the car replaced . That would be the right thing to do. Instead the warranty of course has to honor the repair but what about the other malfunctioning. No one is paying attention to the customer.

    Business Response

    Date: 11/30/2024

    To whom it may concern, the customers first visit was on 9/11/24, our service technician did an analysis and found stored transmission codes that were not active, and no warning lights were illuminated on the instrumentation panel.  It's standard protocol to first clear all the stored codes and test drive to determine if any codes return.  No codes were present, as a result, we performed a post inspection, checked fluid levels and verified no damage was done to the transmission.  On the 2nd visit, 10/05/24, we found multiple active transmission codes and lights illuminated on her instrumentation panel.  Our technician performed a diagnosis and found the transmission wiring had paint overspray causing a communication error between the transmission and other computers.  The repair is not typically covered under the factory warranty, but considering the customer's problems, we covered the cost of repairs and paid for the loaner car.  IT SHOULD BE NOTED, between the 1st and 2nd visit, the customer had her car at an auto body shop for paint repairs due to vandalism.  We were not aware of this at time of giving the customer a complimentary loaner and repairs.  During 2nd visit, she accepted complimentary services and after completed we were informed about the visit to the auto body shop.  

    On her 3rd visit, 11/08/24, a "TAS" case was opened up with Toyota to get a Toyota Master Field Technician to assist our technicians to more accurately diagnosis the problem.  We again supplied a complimentary loaner car to the customer at no cost.  The ********************** Field Technician came out personally to give hands on assistance with the diagnosis.  The Field Tech discovered there was an internal solenoid sticking intermittently causing drivability issues.  Because it was sticking intermittently, our technicians could not find the problem, it would free up prior to visiting by itself.  As a result, The ********** submitted a request to replace the transmission.  The replacement transmission has been authorized and was ordered on 11/21/24, it is currently in transit.  The customer has also been in contact with out Toyota Representative, ******* *******, who is performing a post-production investigation.  To summarize, we have gone over and beyond the scope of responsibility and are doing everything possible to satisfy Ms. ******************* Please let us know if additional information is needed.    

    Customer Answer

    Date: 12/03/2024

     
    Complaint: 22602053

    I am rejecting this response because:

    When I originally brought the car in back in September and explained what the car was doing no one took me serious. They cleared the codes on the car which is stated in the receipts that they couldn't replicate them again. But it was there.
    Gave the car back to me . The car did have vandalism but everyone knew in October when I showed photos to prove that the car wasn't in a accident because their was suspicion that the car was hit, I even showed paperwork, they even tried to sell me another car to put me in even more debt instead of trying to reconcile the situation, it wasn't until I called corporate because I keep having bad experiences every time I called, or even showed up to the repair portion and yes I was upset because I have a brand new car that doesn't work, and not safe. I have children that ride in the vehicle.l've stressed about the transmission as well as the hybrid malfunction and the manager wasn't listening to me or even caring about the fact that I at least deserved a replacement vehicle because it's crazy to have to keep coming back every month with the same issue. Yes, currently the car is still at the dealer since 11/8/24 and they are awaiting a new transmission because the car is still within warranty, the car still had more than just the transmission issues which of course we have to address the main an then but this has been beyond stressful, the rental 
    car I was in for the last time had expired tags, l've been pulled over by the police twice but they let me go because they saw it was a rental .an i literally showed up at the dealership an called to replace the car or at-least get a new sticker but having to constantly keep calling an visiting outside of repair is a headache .
    The car shouldn't have been given unless it was good to go. We did talk and it was replaced after weeks of being in another awkward situation. It's beyond stressful and if it were your mother or sister in this situation she wouldn't be because someone would be there to help. I hate being mislead or lied to, and on about something that I work hard for every day just like the average person. Ive been a customer with this ********************** for many years.
    I have been beyond patient, I have been as calm as I can but I am still not happy with the situation because it's gone on for so long. There isn't any communication with what's going on, I have to call to get an update or come in when I am told I will receive a call. It's not professional. I feel like I was a priority when they were trying to sell the car but now I am a liability/issue.

    Sincerely,


    ******* *****-******

    Business Response

    Date: 12/06/2024

    To whom it may concern, I'm not sure what Ms. ************ is rejecting.  We have 3 Toyota representatives involved with her case; and a replacement transmission has been ordered.  We are greatly apologetic for the inconvenience caused to Ms. ************.  Unfortunately, there are protocols and procedures in place to protect Toyota and the consumer.  Unfortunately, sometimes the wheel moves slow but it's moving to the benefit of the consumer, Toyota is replacing the Transmission and Ms. ************ is in a loaner car.  Ms. ************ has phone numbers to contact 2 managers in the store and Toyota has reached out to her.  We are just waiting for the new transmission to arrive.    

    Customer Answer

    Date: 12/09/2024

     
    Better Business Bureau:

    I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.

    Sincerely,

    ******* *****-******
  • Initial Complaint

    Date:10/11/2024

    Type:Service or Repair Issues
    Status:
    AnsweredMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    2021 jeep Cherokee Prep charge not disclosed to me before payment. Was not explained any charges on paper. Handed me a business card for the amount to get the check while the finished the paperwork.The salesman said they would clean the car and do a finale check before I left and I had negotiated a price of *****. Never told they were charging me ******* to clean the car and get it ready. Then after telling the finance person I had a plate to transfer. He repeatedly told me that it was just easier to ha . It done through them. I finally gave in. When returning ** walked me into the repair shop to the cashier. Still did not go over the charges and explain them which I have always had done with other dealerships I've dealt with. Walked me to the car and handed me the papers in an envelope and walked off. Stopped for food on the way home and looked at the paperwork which was barely readable and discovered the prices extra charges were unreasonable.Called immediately and told them it was unacceptable. Then discovered an option that I specifically asked about wasn't working. Called back Tuesday to talk with a manager. (Had him on speaker and my girlfriend was present when he said he would pick up the car have it detailed return all of the plate fees, and work with me on the prep fees. Since then I have been bounced from person to person and they refuse to answer a lot of my calls. Still have my car which they have had for over 2 weeks. No monastery return and the finance guy sent a voice mail stating that they canceled the plated and had mine transferred but when I called the bmv they don't even have me owning a jeep let alone it being plated and registered.    

    Business Response

    Date: 10/18/2024

    Hello, Ms. ****** ******* was sold a 2021 Jeep Cherokee on 9/14/2024, she called on 9/17/24 to voice some concerns about her vehicle.  She complained the vehicle was not detailed properly and it did not have the "Virtual Response (**)" feature.  We sent porters to her home to exchange vehicles.  She has had our loaner car for almost a month with every excuse to not come back into the store.  We have tried to resolve this issue and get our loaner vehicle returned with no success.  ***************** complained that the Jeep does not have the ** feature and wanted to return the vehicle.  We called Jeep to confirm feature was on Jeep, the salesman (JC) followed the instructions given by Jeep and confirmed the Virtual response feature was on vehicle and working.  We also got the Jeep detailed a 2nd time and informed Ms. ******* that we confirmed the "**" feature was working and will show her how to engage.  After we address a concern, she comes up with another issue.  There was an issue with transfer of plates we reversed and fixed.  We kept getting reasons why she couldn't return to exchange vehicles.  At some point, we got a 2nd ******* involved to try and call at different times of the day.  The 2nd ******* told Ms. ******* that we would come to her to exchange vehicles.  When the 2nd ******* got involved, Ms. ******* then said we couldn't come to her place of work to exchange vehicles.  She explained she worked 12 hours a day Monday-Saturday and needed her employer's daughter to assist and didn't know when she would be available to exchange out of our loaner car.  She was asked when we would her back and she declined to give a definite day.  She has names of 2 *******s that she has been dealing with, on Friday 10/11 and Saturday 10/12 she left multiple messages, but unfortunately, that ******* was unavailable and didn't receive the Vmail until Wednesday 10/16.  Because of the missed calls he left her his personal cell number to reach out, but she has not responded.  We have called 3 times this week with no return calls at all.  Not even to the *******s cell number. We have addressed every concern but now she is ghosting us.

    Ms. ******* mentions that she called the Indiana DMV and Indiana does not have her registered as a Jeep owner.  It was explained to her that it takes a minimum of 40 - 60 days for out of state deals to be processed. She has a temp tag that lasts for 90 days.  Ms. ******* called the Indiana DMV within 2-3 weeks of purchase.  They wouldn't have anything from the State of Illinois regarding her purchase yet.

    Finally, Ms. ******* gives a narrative that we just gave her a price on the back of a business card and handed her paperwork "unsigned"?  As with all our customers, we present numbers prior to going into the finance office.  Our Finance ******* goes over product and has every customer sign a menu of items accepted or rejected.  The customer has every opportunity to discuss anything she was unsure of at time of signing.  We believe we have gone over and beyond to help this customer.  She has had our loaner car for over a month and refuses to make any arrangements for an exchange of vehicles and receive her refund.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Customer Answer

    Date: 10/21/2024

     
    Complaint: 22410846

    I am rejecting this response because:
    I have tried to discuss the amount they are refunding and they have repeatedly refused to answer that question. 
    Sincerely,

    ****** *******

    Business Response

    Date: 11/07/2024

    In Ms. ********* complaint, she referred to a $1999 charge that she agreed to at time of purchase.  To satisfy Ms. ******** on 10/15/2024 we cut a check for $1999.  We began to call Ms. ******* to pick up the check but she was not responsive.  Ultimately, my Office Manager reached out to her and scheduled a visit.  On 10/25/2024 Ms. ******* signed for the $1999 check and finally returned our loaner car.  On 10/28/2024 the $1999 cleared our bank.  I called Ms. ******* to find out if there was still an issue.  She has not responded yet.  I'm assuming everything has been settled and Ms. ******* has been made whole.  

    Customer Answer

    Date: 11/09/2024

     
    Complaint: 22410846

    I am rejecting this response because:

    Sincerely,

    ****** *******

    Customer Answer

    Date: 11/14/2024

    AdvantageToyota had previously told me that the option that was in need of repair while they had my car was fixed and it is not fixed. The text to talk message is not working

    Business Response

    Date: 12/06/2024

    To whom it may concern, I have made several attempts to contact Ms. ******* prior to responding to BBB without success.  I believe the "fix" she is referring to is the virtual response feature in the Jeep she purchased.  **************** was here, she was in a rush and left before the salesman could go over the feature with her.  She believes the virtual response feature is broken; we believe she is just not activating properly.  I would love for her to have a conversation with the salesman to go over the virtual response feature.  I'm assuming this is what she is referencing in her complaint but can't be sure since she has not returned my call.  

    Customer Answer

    Date: 12/13/2024

     
    Complaint: 22410846

    I am rejecting this response because:

    Sincerely,

    ****** *******

    Customer Answer

    Date: 12/16/2024

    Mr ***** told me he made an appt. With jeep to have the issue with the vr fixed. He never did this. He also told u that I left the establishment in a hurry so he could not have the salesman show me how to use what he never fixed. I never spoke with him when I picked up my car. I can also have my daughter-in-law attest to the fact that her my grandson and myself were there waiting for altleast an hour to get the check they gave me and to get my car yes we did need to leave right away when they finally brought my car out because we had to get back to ******* and get me other grandson from school. Mr ***** is a disrespectful liar. 

    The vr on my car doesn't wrk which I was assured by the salesman when I bought it that it did!

    Business Response

    Date: 12/17/2024

    Ms. ******* is correct, I didn't make the appt to have the Jeep inspected, but my boss did.  I never said "I made the appt."  She is also correct; she never spoke to me when she picked up the Jeep because I was told she would only deal with the office manager, ***** *******.  And again, I agree Ms. ******* was there ***** minutes waiting for vehicle to return from being detailed, but in her own words they had to get back to ******* to pick up her grandson.  Her haste to leave did not allow the salesman to go over the Virtual Response (**) feature with her.  An additional 5 - 10 minutes and we could have explained the ** feature.  I have called Ms. ******* on 4 - 5 occasions since early to mid-November to try and get this handled, but instead of calling me, she continues to communicate through the BBB.  We can't explain the ** feature if she only communicates through the BBB.  I want to help Ms. ******* but she won't respond to my calls.  Please ask her to call me (*** *****) at ************ to schedule a time explain use of the ** feature.  She should leave a best time to call on my vmail if I don't answer. We want to help, but she won't let us.

    Customer Answer

    Date: 12/21/2024

     
    Complaint: 22410846

    I am rejecting this response because:
    I was standing outside with the car for atleast 10 minutes with ***** and even exited the car and second time and gave ***** a big hug and thanked her for her help. Not one person tried to speak with me about the second issue. I will call him and let him tell me what he thinks will help but I assure you I have tried everything that has been suggested to me with no avail.
    Sincerely,

    ****** *******
  • Initial Complaint

    Date:09/10/2024

    Type:Service or Repair Issues
    Status:
    AnsweredMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    On 09/07/24, my wife took her Rav 4 to get her oil change at Advantage Toyota of River Oaks. After paying for the service, she started driving home. Approximately a mile from the dealership, the car began to shake and large clouds of smoke started to come out of the exhaust. My wife tried to pull over but the car would barely move because of the shaking. She finally pulled off the street and shut off the engine. She called me to tell me what was going on. I drove to where the car was broken down. When I got there, I opened the hood and saw oil all over the engine compartment. I also saw that the oil cap was not capped. I check the dipstick and did not get a reading of any oil. I checked it again and still nothing. We called the Advantage to have them to the car to their dealership because of their negligence. The tow truck towed the Rav4 to Advantage. I drove straight to the Advantage. When I arrived, I went into Advantage's service lot. I saw a person working on our vehicle. The mechanic was filling our Rav4 with oil. He started that he was sorry about the mishap and he would get us on our way. **** ******** (assistant service manager) was there for the whole encounter. After filling the oil, the mechanic started the Rav4. The Rav4 was still excessively smoking. I told the mechanic that was not normal. The mechanic then checked the oil level, and he said that the oil was over filled now. The mechanic now blamed the smoke on it being over filled. I told the mechanic to stop working on the Rav4 because I was going to take the car to a different dealership. It seems like Advantage does not know to work on cars. The other dealership checked out the car and they recommend that I replace some parts and clean the engine compartment. Approximately, $1300 worth of work and now Advantage Toyota of River Oaks does not want to pay for their mess up. Advantage's service manager (****) will not return my calls. Do not trust Advantage Toyota of River Oaks.   

    Business Response

    Date: 09/14/2024

    The customer had their vehicle towed in stating it was not running properly 9/7 after work hours (3p.m). A Toyota certified technician met them outside saw the oil cap was left off, added a quart of oil and drove the vehicle inside the shop for further inspection. He checked the oil level and saw it was overfilled, At that moment, the customer insisted the technician to stop inspection and diagnosis to have the vehicle towed to another Toyota for repairs. We requested to provide a loaner vehicle and perform the repairs but he declined. I spoke with the customers husband he provided me with the information to the shop he had it towed to on 9/8. 9/9 approximately 1p.m, I spoke with the service advisor Robert Schwab, at Team Toyota, he advised me The oil was overfilled and had a total of 10 quarts inside the engine and it appears the oil cap was left off. Robert stated It was necessary to start with performing a new oil change and filter and replacing the drive belt due to oil contamination But after the work was done, a test drive was performed, and there was excessive smoke coming out of the exhaust. Robert stated the customer requested to have the spark plugs replaced and the PCV valve replaced before further diagnosis was performed. I told Robert I would be in contact with him by 4 PM with an update. I spoke with my manager, and we concluded we will assist with a portion of the repairs. I left Robert a voicemail approximately 3:50pm stating we will provide a purchase order for payment and to contact me when he receives the voicemail. We feel the spark plugs could have been flooded due to the overfilling of the engine, but no diagnosis was able to be performed for a professional recommendation. We will pay for the replacing of the oil and filter, drive belt, spark plugs replacement, taxes and shop supplies. No failure was confirmed to the pcv valve to recommend replacing at that time. 

    Customer Answer

    Date: 09/18/2024

     

    Complaint: 22267324



    I am rejecting this response because:

    Advantage Toyota is not giving an accurate account of facts. On 9/7, our Rav4 was at Advantage Toyota for an oil change.  Advantage messed up the oil change by not putting on the oil cap, and my wife had to get the car towed back to Advantage approximately 15 minutes after getting the oil change. After the car was towed back, Advantage's technician over filled the car's oil. The car continued to smoke out of the exhaust at which point the technician said he should drain the oil, change the oil soaked belt, change the plugs, and change the pcv valve. I agreed but I did not they that Advantage was going to be able to complete the job without messing it up.  I had the car towed to Team Toyota in Schererville. Team Toyota did the work. On 9/10, I paid the bill at Team Toyota because Advantage would not return my calls. I talked to Advantage's service manage briefly on Monday morning. He would not return my calls afterwards. I also left a message at Advantage for the general manager or owner of the dealership to call me. No one ever call from Advantage. I want Advantage to pay for their negligence. I want Advantage to give me their insurance information, so I can file a claim against their insurance. Advantage Toyota is responsible for the repairs according to the Illinois Gatekeepers Liability Act 625 ILCS 5 illinois Vehicle code. 



    Sincerely,



    Armando Martinez

    Business Response

    Date: 10/07/2024

    The customer had their vehicle towed in stating it was not running properly 9/7 after work hours (3p.m). A Toyota certified technician met them outside saw the oil cap was left off, added a quart of oil and drove the vehicle inside the shop for further inspection. He checked the oil level and saw it was overfilled, At that moment, the customer insisted the technician to stop inspection and diagnosis to have the vehicle towed to another Toyota for repairs. We requested to provide a loaner vehicle and perform the repairs but he declined. I spoke with the customers husband he provided me with the information to the shop he had it towed to on 9/8. 9/9 approximately 1p.m, I spoke with the service advisor Robert Schwab, at Team Toyota, he advised me The oil was overfilled and had a total of 10 quarts inside the engine and it appears the oil cap was left off. Robert stated It was necessary to start with performing a new oil change and filter and replacing the drive belt due to oil contamination But after the work was done, a test drive was performed, and there was excessive smoke coming out of the exhaust. Robert stated the customer requested to have the spark plugs replaced and the PCV valve replaced before further diagnosis was performed. I told Robert I would be in contact with him by 4 PM with an update. I spoke with my manager, and we concluded we will assist with a portion of the repairs. I left Robert a voicemail approximately 3:50pm stating we will provide a purchase order for payment and to contact me when he receives the voicemail. We feel the spark plugs could have been flooded due to the overfilling of the engine, but no diagnosis was able to be performed for a professional recommendation. We will pay for the replacing of the oil and filter, drive belt, spark plugs replacement, taxes and shop supplies. No failure was confirmed to the pcv valve to recommend replacing at that time. We can have a check for the customer for the amount of $700.95

    Customer Answer

    Date: 10/15/2024

     

    Complaint: 22267324



    I am rejecting this response because: This case has not been resolved.  Advantage Toyota has not called me, emailed, or reimbursed me.  I need to get paid in full or have advantage give me their insurance info so I can file a claim against them. 



    Sincerely,



    Armando Martinez

    Business Response

    Date: 11/08/2024

    On 9/7/2024, the customer had their vehicle towed back to ********************************************* stating that it was not running properly.  The vehicle arrived after the service department closed at 3pm.  One of our Toyota Certified Technicians was still on the property speaking with someone in the sales department (closes 6pm).  He saw the tow truck pull up offered his help.  He saw the oil cap was displaced and added 1 quart of oil.  He then drove the vehicle inside our facility to do a courtesy inspection since after hours.  He checked the oil and saw it was overfilled.  At that moment, the customer insisted that the Certified Technician stop the inspection and his preliminary diagnosis.  The customer insisted on having the vehicle towed to another dealership.  We were willing to offer a loaner vehicle and the ability to handle any repairs needed.  The customer declined to allow us to mitigate the situation.  On 9/8/2024, our Service Manager called the customer to determine where the vehicle was taken, he found out it went to TEAM Toyota.  On 9/9/2024, we contacted ****** ******, the service adviser at TEAM Toyota.  He informed our service manager that the oil was overfilled with 10 quarts of oil, and it appeared the oil cap had not been replaced incorrectly.  ****** (Team Toyota) informed us the vehicle needed a new oil change and filter, and he needed to replace the drive belt due to oil contamination.  After completion of suggested work, a test drive was done, and smoke still came out of the exhaust.  ****** stated the customer requested to have the spark plugs and the *** valve replaced before further diagnosis was completed.  ********** manager (Advantage) told ****** (TEAM) that he would be contacted by 4pm with an update on reimbursement.  The General Manager of Advantage Toyota was consulted; he was disappointed we didn't have the ability to take care of the repairs ourselves.  But agreed to reimburse TEAM Toyota for the suggested repairs given by ****** ****** and for the Spark Plugs.  We felt the spark plugs may have also been contaminated because of the overfilling of oil.  The customer didn't allow TEAM to do an actual diagnosis to accurately determine the issue.  TEAM just did what the customer requested without verifying with our Service Manager what we would reimburse.  We are willing to reimburse the customer for another oil change/filter, drive belt, spark plug replacement, taxes and miscellaneous shop supplies.  No test of the *** Valve was done by TEAM to confirm the valve needed to be replaced.  We believe we should have been given the ability to mitigate the situation.  We reimbursed TEAM Toyota $700.95 on 9/10/2024.  The receipt is attached.

    Customer Answer

    Date: 11/19/2024

     
    Complaint: 22267324

    I am rejecting this response because:
    This claim is not resolved. Toyota has to contacted me with payment information nor insurance information. 


    Sincerely,

    ******* ********

    Business Response

    Date: 11/26/2024

    To whom it may concern, I have attached the receipt for $700 paid to TEAM Toyota for items related to the oil change over-fill.  I have also attached another copy of the TEAM Toyota Invoice.  It states, "The customer requested" the *** VALVE be replaced.  The customer never allowed ********************************************* to accurately diagnose if there were any issues with over-filling the oil reservoir that affected the *** Valve.  The customer stated that he told our technician to stop with the inspection, he was taking his vehicle to another dealer.  TEAM Toyota verbally shared with our service manager that they never diagnosed that a *** Valve was needed.  TEAM Toyota's invoice states that the customer requested the *** Valve and Spark Plugs be replaced.  Our Tech's agreed that there was a high probability that the spark plugs and belts were exposed to oil because of the overfill.  But there was nothing to indicate that the *** VALVE needed to be replaced.  TEAM Toyota just honored their request.  We are deeply sorry for the mistake made by our service department; we feel like we should have been given the opportunity to mitigate the situation.  We understand why the decision was made to take to another dealer.  We do not agree that the customer arbitrarily decided a *** Valve was needed, it was not diagnosed as a problem by TEAM or ADVANTAGE Toyota.  
  • Initial Complaint

    Date:08/23/2024

    Type:Service or Repair Issues
    Status:
    ResolvedMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    On Tuesday, 8/20/24, at 1:30pm CST, I took my 2010 Toyota Venza to Advantage River Oaks Toyota for an oil change maintenance and a right headlight lamp replacement. After waiting, I was informed by ********, the service advisor, at 3:35pm that the technician installed the new headlight lamp, but it was not operating. She shared that the technician saw a split wire and needed to do a diagnostic to determine the issue. This would be an additional $250.00 on top of the $205 cost for the headlight lamp + installation, plus the possibility of ordering a replacement kit. I declined the diagnostic and requested the new headlight be uninstalled since it could not operate. ******** refused, stating I had to pay for the installation even though the issue wasnt resolved. She claimed I should have requested a diagnostic first, despite having had a similar headlight issue resolved here previously without a diagnosis.When I asked to speak to the service manager, *********************, I was told he had left for the day and left my number to call me. Assistant Manager ************************* observed the conversation but did not assist. I was forced to pay for a non-functional headlight and emailed ****** and ***** on 8/21/24 morning but received no response. I also left a voicemail on 8/23/24, waiting for a reply.This situation reflects poor customer service. The technician should have tested the electricals and shared information about the split wire before installing the headlight, allowing me to make an informed decision about whether to proceed with a diagnosis. Instead, I was forced to pay for an incomplete service and denied a resolution. Ive trusted this dealership since purchasing my car in 2010, but this experience has left me dissatisfied, frustrated, and bamboozled.I hope that your team can help resolve this issue. You can reach me on my cell at ************.

    Business Response

    Date: 08/27/2024

    We spoke to ************* shortly after the complaint was made. We scheduled an appointment for Thursday 8/29 for the issue to be resolved. ************* also confirmed she would follow up with the Better Business Bureau to remove the complaint as she is actively in contact with the Service Manager at Advantage Toyota of River Oaks

    Customer Answer

    Date: 09/04/2024

     
    Complaint: ********

    I am rejecting this response because:

    Thank you for contacting me regarding the status of my complaint #******** against Advantage Toyota of River Oaks. I was in contact with their Service Manager, *********************, and had a service appointment on 8/29/24 at 10:30am. However, ********************* was called into a district meeting upon my arrival, so we could not talk to resolve this complaint. Their service team informed me that the kit for my headlight needed to be replaced and that **** would contact me to discuss the next step and discount. I sent a follow-up email to ********************* on 8/31/24 as I have not received his call regarding the next step (still awaiting a response). 

    Knowing this, I would like to keep this claim open. Please let me know if you need any additional information. I will also keep you posted on the status. 

    Thank you,

    Sincerely,
    **************************;

    Business Response

    Date: 09/06/2024

    I spoke with ************* to go over the last visit. We also scheduled a date and time for her to return to diagnose, at no charge, the reason why the replacing of the headlamp bulb did not work. A Toyota certified technician diagnosed the problem on 8-29-24 11 a.m. to be the headlamp ballast failed causing the headlamp bulb not to illuminate. We provided ************* with the price to correct the problem she's having. The part/ballast itself is $380+tax, Labor is 3.5 hours labor to remove the bumper and headlamp to replace the ballast which is $626.50. The headlamp ballast caused the previous bulb to burn out, so the replacing of the bulb was necessary. We offered to install the part for free if ************* would purchase the part. We spoke 9/5/24 regarding the necessary repairs and she explained she was not prepared for that amount; I spoke with the parts manager who offered a $20 discount which would bring the total to $360+tax. I am currently waiting on ************* to respond. Also, she has my personal cell phone number so she can get directly in contact with the Service Manager

    Customer Answer

    Date: 09/06/2024

     
    Complaint: 22185903

    I am rejecting this response because:

    Below is a summary of my recent engagement with the Advantage Toyota River ************ team.

    On Thursday,9/4/24, I called ********************* at 12:41pm for an update on the cost of replacing the ballast kit on my 2010 Toyota Venza. **** said the labor cost would be removed, and they would charge me $300+ to replace the kit, and the bumper would need to be removed to fix it. I shared that I did not expect that cost as I ******d replacement costs for the ballast and thought it would be around $80 - $100. At that time, he stated he would call me back in 10 minutes to see if he could get any discount and double-check that I was not being overcharged for anything I previously purchased (i.e., the LED headlight). I have yet to receive a call back from him. 

    I emailed **** today, 9/6/24, to follow up on the status of a discount and overcharge, and shared a screenshot of my ****** search for the cost of a ballast replacement, which ranged from $50 to $100. I await a response but will follow up with a call. 

    Business Response

    Date: 09/12/2024

    ************* arrived 9/11/24 to have headlamp ballast replaced. ************* paid for the part and the service department performed the repairs at no charge to the customer. Also, a new connector to the ballast was needed due to it being burned out from the failure of the ballast. The wiring connector which cost $298 was replaced at no additional charge to *************. She was released after verifying proper operation of the headlamp

    Customer Answer

    Date: 09/13/2024

     
    Better Business Bureau:

    I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.

    Sincerely,

    *************************
  • Initial Complaint

    Date:07/09/2024

    Type:Service or Repair Issues
    Status:
    AnsweredMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    I took my vehicle in for service, because I experience some control problems. I spoke to the assistant service manager, he ask me whats the reason for your visit, I explain to him my concerns about my safety of the truck. I left it there on 6/4/24 - 6/7/24 when I drove away and got ****** **** and accelerate I was disappointed that put parts on that didn't help at all.

    Business Response

    Date: 08/07/2024

    The customer brought the vehicle in for excessive shaking above 60mph and squeaking noise from front end while driving. Upon inspection the technician found multiple suspension and steering components rusting/rotting that was considered unsafe. The tech recommended the parts to be replaced, and the customer was brought back to the vehicle to visually inspect for himself. Provided the customer an estimate for repairs, he agreed on the price and the tech performed the authorized repairs. Customer picked up the vehicle on 6/7 and returned 6/11 stating he still feels excessive shaking above 40mph but the noise is gone. A technician test drove the vehicle to inspect for complaint, could not duplicate customers concern but did notice when applying brakes at higher speeds (60mph) steering wheel shakes. Vehicle was pulled in, lifted to inspect and found shake is from front rotors being warped. Brake pad life is still considered safe at 5mm, rotors are warped which can cause shaking when braking from high speeds. We advised customer of issue, customer left and returned 6/18 stating still feels shaking in steering wheel above 50mph. Customer was given rental. Two technicians test drove, they confirmed there was a shimmy in the steering wheel above 65mph only when you let go of the steering wheel, not excessive. A tire balance was performed, the Service Manger test drove vehicle along with 3 techs confirming no shaking at all in steering wheel. The customer was contacted and advised the issue is resolved. The customer picked up 6/19, test drove with Service Manager and customers son, no shaking could be duplicated. Customer returned 7/2 stating still feels shaking, Service Manager went for test drive and could not duplicate concern, video was also taken of test drive confirming no shake from 0mph up to 75mph.
    *********************
    Service Manager
  • Initial Complaint

    Date:04/30/2024

    Type:Sales and Advertising Issues
    Status:
    AnsweredMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    I agreed to purchase a vehicle at the listed price online and the salesperson and sales director both told me it was mandatory to add the clear coat protection, low jack ****** and a few other add ons that consumers can deny in the amount of $3,000. They stated it was mandatory to buy those add ons which is illegal and deception and bait and switch according to any car dealership law. Then the sales director proceeded to tell me due to Covid they need to price the cars lower and the make the potential buyer buy those add ons to make up profit they are losing. Again it is illegal to offer a car at a price online and make a buyer pay other fees for add ins outside of tax title and document type fees.

    Business Response

    Date: 05/13/2024

    May 13, 2024

    Advantage Toyota of River Oaks
    1970 River **********
    ************, *******;  60409

    *************************
    Complaint #********


    To Whom It May ****************** Tuesday April 30, 2024, there was a conversation had with a gentleman about 2021 *** 40i xDrive. First let me say there was never an agreement to purchase this vehicle.  There is nothing that indicates we agreed upon a final selling price. 

    My salesman called the customer, as a matter of transparency,and disclosed some additional accessories had been added to the vehicle.  As a result of his transparency, the customer wanted to speak with a manager.

    The first thing the manager did was apologize for the pricing error.  He indicated the car had accessories that a previous customer requested be added to the vehicle and the deal fell through.  The customer indicated that he had a dealers license and understood that sometimes these things happen but wanted to negotiate from the advertised price.  The manager indicated that there was no negotiation regarding the advertised price because there was a pricing error.  The customer immediately said that it was bait and switch, the manager indicated it was not, thats why we had a salesman call him to discuss the pricing error.

    In addition, the customer was already upset with my BDC manager who informed him he must come to ******** to do paperwork.  This was prior to the sales manager speaking with him.  So, at the start of the conversation with the sales manager he was irritated because he did not want to come to ******** to do all the legal documents.  The last comment to him was that a local customer was currently inquiring about the car, and we were probably about to do numbers.  That upset him even more and he said, I know how to handle this and hung up.

    There was no malice of intent here.  We were proactive in calling this customer to be transparent.  We did not want him to drive from **** and be disappointed.  It is our belief that this gentleman had already negotiated a price on the vehicle as an auto broker and it was hurting his ability to sell the ***.
    With Warm Regards,

    ***********************
    New Vehicle Sales Director
    Advantage Toyota of River Oaks

  • Initial Complaint

    Date:03/21/2024

    Type:Service or Repair Issues
    Status:
    ResolvedMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    The sales man sold me lojack when it was never installed nor was it connected took it back on March18 to be connected after paying for it on March 4 not sure of cost because deal told me that the paper work break down of the car was shredded. So I can not see the break down of the price I paid for add one to the cost of the sale of the car .Nor have they sent me a password to activate the lojack .I'm not interested in it no more and am overwhelmed by the lies .Please help.
  • Initial Complaint

    Date:03/08/2024

    Type:Service or Repair Issues
    Status:
    AnsweredMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    I purchased a 2018 *** X3 in March of last year. The car wouldn't connect to Apple car play. The couldn't fix it. Finally, I paid $200 for a diagnostic at ***. I took this diagnostic to their shop asking them to replace the antenna and the communication box. They replaced the communication box but not the antenna. After the car malfunctioned AGAIN, they replaced the communication box and repaired (not replaced) the antenna. This issue is now resolved but the connection is still unstable at times. The alarm system malfunctioned, going off all times of the day and night! I took several trips to your shop with no resolution. Eventually, I dropped the car off and allowed them to respond to security calls in the middle of the night. They replaced the sensor and the issue was resolved. "Emergency Call System Malfunction" This notification prevents maintenance updates from being registered on the car. As a result, alerts to replace the brakes and change the oil kept going off after these services were done. I took it to their shop and they cleared the alerts but not the **** alert. They told me this is a system update that must be done by ***. They charged me $200 to CLEAR THE ALERTS. This issue remains UNRESOLVED. The back up camera was malfunctioning. I took it in. It remains UNRESOLVED. The climate control panel was flashing. I took it in. It remains UNRESOLVED. Yesterday the ENTIRE DASH PANEL went black!! At this point we must admit the car is a lemon! I considered purchasing something else, that is until the salesman asked me for $4000 downpayment and a larger monthly payment. Fool me once!!! I don't believe this car was ever inspected. Advantage needs to get this inspected and FIXED, or purchase it back from me!

    Business Response

    Date: 03/18/2024

    We would be willing to inspect the vehicle again to see if it is a related concern.

    Customer Answer

    Date: 03/19/2024

     
    Complaint: 21405939

    I am rejecting this response because: My original request is to fix the vehicle, not to have it inspected.

    Clear the Emergency Call System Malfunction coding. Do not send me to *** to pay for it to be cleared.  

    Sincerely,

    *********************

    Business Response

    Date: 03/26/2024

    We would need to inspect the vehicle to verify that the concern is related to the original issue

    Customer Answer

    Date: 03/30/2024

     
    Complaint: 21405939

    I am rejecting this response because:  I am asking for reassurance that the issues will be REPAIRED at no additional cost to me. If the business agrees to repair the issues at no additional cost to me, I will accept that offer. 

    Sincerely,

    *********************

    Business Response

    Date: 04/01/2024

    As mentioned previously, we would need to inspect the vehicle to confirm the issue is the same  as before any repair would be made. 

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