ComplaintsforAmerican Garage Builders

• Initial Complaint

  07/24/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I contracted with American Garage Builders to construct a garage and provide all concrete work, including the garage slab, driveway and sidewalk. The contract is dated 8/21/21. The concrete was completed on or about 9/14/21. In March of 2022 the driveway began to chip away. American contracted with a subcontractor to provide the concrete work. When I contacted American they said it was chert pops and resulted from the freezing of the chert in the concrete, although according to American a low chert concrete was used. They then blamed me for putting salt on the driveway to melt ice over the winter. I've built 2 previous homes and poured 2 driveways and 3 patios. I am well aware not to apply salt to concrete. They then said it was the result salt dripping off our cars as we drove onto the driveway and into garage. Because I have never applied salt to the driveway and the number of holes caused by the flaking I did some of my own research. it appears to be what's scaling. One of the causes is due to over working the concrete or by using the incorrect concrete mix. This can weaken the top shell of the concrete resulting in the scaling. Originally the scaling was limit to 2 areas, but it has not moved to other areas of the driveway. Originally the salesman was responsive but is no longer returning text messages. I've asked for the name of the concrete company and the owner of American with no response. Our conversation was started around March and since this time the concrete subcontractor has not been out to look at the concrete. According to American's contract - they say they warrant the workmanship of the concrete. Although the freeze thaw cycle can cause flaking, this driveway has gone through one winter and the number of chips are in excess of 70 with more appearing. If this is the type of product provided by the concrete Industry I highly doubt anyone would use concrete.

  

  Business response

  07/29/2022

  My name is ************************* and I am the owner of American Garage Builders. American entered into a contract with ************** on August 17, 2021 to construct a 24' x 25 detached garage with a reinforced concrete floating slab, along with a reinforced concrete driveway. I have read **************** email regarding an area of concrete having surface damage. It is important to remember that due to a number of uncontrollable circumstances when dealing with concrete,including moisture, extreme temperature changes, freeze/thaw cycles and frost action that occur during ********* *******, even properly placed and maintained concrete can still heave, settle, scale, and/or crack.These characteristic are cosmetic and they do not affect the structural integrity of the concrete. Due to varied causes, including Mother Nature,American does not warrant concrete against developing surface damage and/or cracking from any cause. This is noted on the back of ***************** signed copy of both the "Building **************************************** LIMITED WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY TO" and also on the front page (third paragraph) on his "Concrete Information & Concrete Phase Completion." I have attached copies for convince. I would like to assure ************** that his concrete driveway is going to provide a hard, reliable surface for decades to come.

  
  In addition, one of the most damaging things to a concrete surface is salt and deicers. Salt and deicers increase the number of freeze/thaw cycles the concrete must go through, this has the potential of damaging its surface. I understand that ************** did not use commercial ice removal compounds, however, road salts used by the City and State that are transferred to the driveway by vehicles are corrosive to concrete and can cause surface damage as well. Sand is the only safe material to use to make concrete surfaces skid resistant. The sand you see on the street corners in barrels usually contains salt, salt is not recommended! The ************************ has investigated reports of surface damage to concrete surfaces when deicer products were used for melting snow and ice. 

  
  Truly,
  *************************

  
  

  Customer response

  08/02/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  

  In a ten second ****** search I found the following information to dispute Americans response.  Excerpts from "the constructor.org" article are attached as screen shots.  Several other articles provided the same information.

  American indicates that scaling will not affect the integrity of the concrete.  This is a false statement.  If the concrete goes unrepaired or replaced the concrete would become structurally unsound.  The scaling is also more than cosmetic.  At the current pace the entire driveway surface could be impacted.

  When I originally notified American they blamed the chipping on chert in the concrete.  Now they keep coming back with the cause being the use of salt on the driveway or by salt dripping from cars entering and exiting the driveway.  Salt dripping from cars is a weak excuse to avoid standing behind their work.  My wife and I were out of State for a month and a half this winter with no traffic on the driveway.  The scaling is also occurring in areas away from the path of the cars.     

  The American contract DOES warrant the workmanship of the installation to be equal or better than modern day standards.  As pointed out in the article this is one of the causes of scaling.  They also warrant the material used.  Which is also a likely source of the scaling.  If this is equal to or better than modern day installation standards and quality material I doubt many people would be installing concrete.

  I feel I'm a reasonable person.  When the contractor was installing the concrete a piece of rebar blew on to the driveway causing a 4 to5 foot permanent scratch.  While I don't like the scratch, I realize mistakes happen and didn't consider any action against the contractor.

  If the owner of American, the concrete contractor or the owner of the ready mix company had this occurring at their home or business I doubt they would find this to be acceptable.

  To date none of these parties have inspected the scaling.  The only representative from American to inspect the scaling was the American salesman.

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

  
  Regards,
  
  *************************

  

  Business response

  08/10/2022

  I have read **************** replied email. He wrote that we are coming back with the cause being the use of salt on the driveway or by salt dripping from cars entering and exiting the driveway. That is not what we are implying, that is just one factor that can cause surface damage. Aggregate (which is present in concrete mix) can retain water, and during the winter months when the concrete freezes, the water inside the aggregate expands and pops out through the surface of the concrete. As previously stated, due to a number of uncontrollable circumstances such as, moisture, extreme temperature changes and the freeze/thaw cycles that concrete must go through in *********,American does not warrant concrete against developing surface damage and/or cracking from any cause.  Again, the good news is that surface damage (pop-outs) doesnt affect the structural integrity of the slab. The pop-outs can be cleaned out, removing any loose material, and can be patched with a concrete patching material, if desired.
  
  Truly,
  
  *************************
  
  

  Customer response

  08/12/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  
  American is now returning to their original excuse of chert popping after trying to blame the popping on salt being applied to the drive.  This was done by the salesman and by innuendo by American.  I have several questions; why is the popping occuring in a concentrated area of the driveway.  The popping is concentrated in a 12 ft. by 3 ft. area.  In the 12 x 3 area there are 25 pops in a 20 inch by 20 inch area with an additional 27 pops in an 18 inch by 18 inch area.  See the attached photos.  If this is chert popping why isn't it randomly popping through out the driveway.  American indicated that the concrete would be low chert - how can this many pops occur as a result of using the correct concrete.  My understanding is that if the pops are due to chert there would be a portion of the aggregate in both the driveway and the portion that flaked away.  This is not the case.

  To date American, the concrete subcontractor and the ready mix company have not inspected the damage.  It seems to me that American is simply trying not to stand by their warranty which clearly states the workmanship will be better than or equal to today's standards and the material provide will be of good quality.  I get the sense that American will do whatever is necessary to avoid standing behind their warranty.  American's last correspondence indicate that the popping would not impact the integrity of the concrete and now they're saying they should be fixed by me patching the pops. 

  
  As previously stated, the cause of concrete popping can be the result of over working the concrete and/or the material is of an inferior quality.

  At this point this is getting ridiculous.  American isn't even considering other causes of the popping and continue to cut and past with their standard answer.

  I would request that American provide me with the name of the concrete subcontractor and ready mix company.
  
  Regards,
  
  *************************

  

  Business response

  08/22/2022

  I have read **************** latest response and want to be clear that, American is not returning to excuses. As stated numerous times, and on three different pages of the contract (including in the warranty), American does not guarantee concrete from cracking or developing surface damage from any cause. As for the workmanship on the garage slab and driveway, ************** signed the Concrete Phase Completion which has a 9 POINT check list. The 9 POINTS are as follows:

   1. Placement (the distance from ALL lot lines),                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         2. Workmanship                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     3. Elevation                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           4. Width                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               5. Floor Slope (3 1/2" - 0")                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       6. Sill Slope 1/2"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   7. Door Opening                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     8. Retaining Wall on the Slab (if applicable)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               9. Site Clean-up.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

  I have again, attached a copy of the signed Concrete Phase Completion by ************** for convenience. American certainly does not want our clients to feel disappointed or mislead in any fashion, hence the reason why we state three different time throughout the contract (including in the warranty and the Concrete Phase Completion) that American does not guarantee concrete from cracking and/or surface damage from any cause. 

  Truly,

  *******************

  
  

  Customer response

  08/25/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below

  American's warranty is inconsistent.  The contract clearly states that American will warrant the workmanship and material of the concrete work which is the basis of my claim.  I don't understand how American can simply say they don't provide a warranty period when their contract states it does.  To date American won't even consider that the workmanship and/or material could be faulty.  I acknowledge the 9 point inspection report was signed by me, however, the workmanship flaws could not be known immediately after the concrete was poured.  The 9 point checklist does not address the material.  I don't believe any reasonable person or court would agree that the workmanship or material are acceptable.  I understand some cracking or surface damage *** occur, however, not to the extent of my damage.  The scaling is continuing to occur daily with now over 75 divots in a 12 ft. by 3 ft. area, with most concentrated in two 2ft. by 2 ft. areas.   No mention by American why the scaling is isolated to this small area with the balance of the driveway, sidewalk and garage floor being in good shape, with the exception of one small crack on the garage floor which is understandable.  All of their stated excuses don't explain this situation.

  I am requesting that American provide me with the name, address and owner of the concrete contractor.  I'm also requesting that American provide me with the name and address of the ready mix company that provided the concrete for my job including batch numbers delivered to my site. 

  Since filing this complaint American, the concrete contractor or the ready mix company have inspected the damage.  

  I continue to feel that the damage area should be replaced.

  
  Regards,
  
  *************************

  

  Business response

  09/02/2022

  I have read **************** latest response regarding his claim. *** signed contract between ************** and American clearly states that American does not warrant concrete against cracking and/or surface damage from any cause. We do not want our clients to feel misled, so American is very redundant on the warranty regarding cracking and/or surface damage if it appears. It is stated clearly on three different pages of the contract, which ************** entered with American. *** three pages of the contract are as follows; *** limited warranty shall not apply to which can be found on the Building Agreement/Purchase Order, also on the Concrete Information & Concrete Phase Completion and finally, on the Concrete Phase Completion page. All of which were acknowledged and signed by **************. As for the workmanship, as said in previous reply, pertains to the Owner(s) 9 Point Inspection and Measurement of the Concrete Work. Again, signed by ************** on September 17, 2021. ************* said the surface damage appeared in March of 2022 during the freeze and thaw cycles of ********* *******.
  
  ************** Central Dispatch provided the material for the concrete slab and driveway. ***y have a location at *********************************************************. *** concrete contractor was 1st Class Concrete located at **************** in *********, **.
  
  Truly,  
  
  *************************;

  Customer response

  09/07/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  

  
  American fails to address my claim that the flaking/chipping is the result of inferior workmanship and/or material which is warranted in the contract.  I know American will continue to duck any responsibility due to the signed concrete report which was signed right after the concrete was poured.  It would be virtually impossible to know the quality of the workmanship or material at that time. I don't care how redundant the contract is when they say they don't warranty cracking or chipping for any reason - when they do warrant workmanship and material.  If American doesn't want to stand behind their warranty for workmanship or material, why would they include this language in their contracts.

  I can't comprehend how American initially said the chipping won't impact the integrity of the concrete and then subsequently recommended I repair it so the integrity of the concrete wouldn't be impacted.

  As an update, the concrete continues to chip away which can't be blamed on American's original excuses of freeze thaw cycle and salt.  How can this amount of chipping be due to any other reason other than inferior workmanship or material.  I find it difficult to believe that the quality of work performed at my home can be considered to be completed in an acceptable ******* like manner.

  Obviously American does not want honor this section of their contract due to their continued excuses and lack of interest in even inspecting the work. I would be interested to learn the next steps that the BBB would recommend to resolve a dispute when the contractor won't honor a contract. 

   

  
  Regards,
  
  *************************

• Initial Complaint

  07/06/2021

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I added a garage and new driveway to my property. I contracted this company to take care of the complete project. The owner Tom is the salesman and receives payment and contracts the rest out. The concrete was poured and we were told not to drive on it for 21 days. We did not drive on it for21 days. During the 21 days a large crack appeared. He told me to bad you signed a paper that if you get a crack too bad. I did . After a short while we noticed that in front of 2 doors it was not pitched correctly and it puddles . I called many times and he finally came out on 5/20. He agreed that it should not be puddling & he will help me with the crack that is just getting bigger. He said "give me a few weeks to get back to you". It is now 7/5 and no contact. I have called, texted & left messages. During this whole process he liked to blame his subcontractors and was only quick to pickup check. Cost over $30,000.00. I want the pitch corrected & something done about the crack as he said.

  Customer response

  07/06/2021

  I have received a text from business that they will be here tomorrow if it rains.

  
  

  

  Business response

  07/16/2021

  My name is ******* ***** and I am the owner of American Garage Builders. I have read the complaint filed with your office by **** *******, file ********. After reading Mrs. *******'s letter, I reached out to her by telephone and introduced myself as the owner of American, and that *** ********* was the sales/construction manager that was assigned to her project. I went into detail explaining that the concerns she is experiencing would fall under the "Warranty" section of her paperwork, that a claim was needed in writing and sent to American’s main office, per contract. I informed Mrs. ******* that I would accepted her letter to the BBB as her warranty claim. Mrs. ******* and I have a meeting scheduled at her property early next week, so that we can address her concerns and get this matter resolved.

  Truly, 
  

  ******* *****

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩