Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:11/01/2024

  Type:Customer Service Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  I put down a $25,000 price hold on my account to choose a custom log home. I did not yet have any final prices on a particular home at that point. As per their website at the time it stated that this price hold is FULLY refundable if not purchasing a home within the year. The company then went ahead without my consent or knowledge and purchased a bunch of building supplies before I had put down a 25% deposit, and before I had signed any purchase orders. I never stated for them to go ahead with the project. I only stated my interested in building and getting the information together to know how much that would cost. I am unaware of what was paid for or purchased, and I question if material was even purchased for my project.
  The company returned 40% of my purchase but not the other 60%. They site the reason as their management team made a mistake and pre-ordered too fast, therefor they had spent over the amount I had given them and did not want to give a refund.
  
  It's also of important note the illegal bait and switch act. I was able to pull the marketing on their website where it stated that I would be entitled to a 100% refund. Since I have asked for a refund, their corporate marketing team has changed their marketing on the website to state no refunds. The writing on their website stated " Price hold: 10% down", we guarentee to hold your price for one year. This deposit is refundable within that time for any reason. Price hold only guarentees a production window once the remaining 15% (totaling 25%) is paid. I never paid the 25% total for the "production deposit" therefor, never consenting to production. I did give them a general timeline in when I was hoping to build, but I never gave them a purchase agreement, production deposit, or a green light to produce. Infact, I asked them to hold off on buying product and they did not listen.
  
  I have tried to solve this amicably however, the owner of the company Ron M*** has stated I will be receiving NO money back.

  Business Response

  Date: 11/20/2024

  Dear Better Business Bureau:This complaint shows a self-service manipulation of our website materials. We do, we did, and we will honor the materials of our website. This situation is simply not applicable to any definition of a price hold—not as written in our website materials nor under any legal interpretation of the term. Why This Case Is Not Applicable To Price Hold Standards:·      This person was not a run-of-the-mill customer. They were a new business partner who approached us to partner, as a dealer, and was in the process of building a model home, which comes with a two-year showing contract.·      This person signed a partnership contract, agreeing to the terms which includes, in case of termination, “all balances owed must be paid in full within 30-days.”·      We have written confirmation of this partner’s knowledge and explicit approval to use this deposit for manufacturing, prior to any monetary transactions taking place.·      The terms agreed to were: a $25,000 deposit towards their model home project. It was noted in writing that we [Cedar Knoll] could use the funds to start assembling the logs to be milled, as well as drawing up blueprints for permits. Not only did this person reply, “Sounds great,” but they then proceeded to spur on the project, with nearly daily communication, with partnership and project terms as outlined.·      The check we received specified that the funds were to be applied as a “Security Deposit.”·      We received this deposit in February—days after our first business meeting. After that time, home designs began and multiple estimates were given, but due to continued design changes by the customer, a quote for the project was not presented to this partner until July. There is no such thing as a price hold without a final quote to to “set” and remain unchanged.The money not returned that this person is complaining about will be kept with the company to cover losses for services already rendered. Not only did this person spur on manufacturing and product purchasing in writing, but by will and deed, resulting in ~50k of our own investment into specialized materials in this partner’s exacting measurements within their expressed timeframe. We continue to lose money by housing these oversized items in vestibules needed for active client business.Not only is this claim unjust and falsified libel, but it’s also an attempt to tarnishing our good name after 45 years with a pristine business reputation. We won’t stand for it.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 11/20/2024

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.Certainly! Here is a more professional and concise rewrite of your statement:---I must address the false claims made by this business:Firstly, I did not manipulate any materials on the website. My lawyer utilizes a program called "*** ******* *******," which can retrieve historical website changes. This tool will show that Cedar Knoll engaged in deceptive marketing practices, conducting a bait-and-switch and failing to honor their terms and conditions. You can verify this timeline for yourself by visiting the ******* *******. They stated that all deposits for a price hold are FULLY REFUNDABLE. This was at the time I had put down the price hold money. While it is completely legal for this business to change their business practices and procedures, they MUST honor the marketing material that was made at the time the $25,000 was put down. Which they are not doing. The historic evidence from the way back machine technology was NOT a manipulation of the historical evidence. This proves character on accord of the business, and dishonest business practices. Additionally, I was never a "business partner" in the legal sense; I was a customer subcontractor. The two-year showing contract is not valid until the house is built. I also did not approve manufacturing or production, and this process was not aligned with Cedar Knoll’s standard practices as indicated on their website. Cedar Knoll provides free basic drawings to all customers, regardless of the customization level as stated by their contract.I communicated to the company that I needed a quote from the contractor to continue the project. The company urged me to put down a $25,000 down payment in an effort to EVEN RECEIVE A PROPER QUOTE. A proper quote is required before production can happen, the company went ahead in production before I had a proper quote! Further, No contractor would provide a quote without blueprints, which put me at a disadvantage and this company of 40 years should have known better. A full quote could not be given until I had blueprints for the contractor for the labor costs. it is unreasonable (on behalf of cedar knolls) to proceed with hundreds of thousands of dollars in spending without an accurate price estimate. I offered to pay for the blueprints, but Cedar Knoll refused to provide me with details of their cost. New York State law requires that security deposits be refunded in full, a practice also stated on the company’s website at the time. Cedar Knoll's statement that "there is no such thing as a price hold without a final quote" contradicts their actions. Without a finalized quote, how can they hold me to a purchase contract? The money laid down was to get blueprints so that I could accurately get a final quote. All clients work from an estimated quote during Cedar Knoll's free design process. I even offered to pay for revisions, which was refused, despite the company's stated policy of providing free drawings to all clients.The funds I provided were given in good faith. This is not libel; these are factual statements regarding illegal business practices, especially concerning marketing and pricing promises.Cedar Knoll’s Independent Contractor Agreement states that "we guarantee shipping within 8 weeks from a cleared deposit," but no shipments have occurred. If Cedar knolls considered this a legal deposit I should have had materials within 8 weeks but I cannot prove there is materials, I also cannot prove the costs on these materials. I have asked several times for an itemized list of what they allegedly "purchased" with my money and the cost of it However they have declined to provides these details which questions if 1. these materials are even in stock and 2. what was actually paid by this business. I have also offered to potentially purchase these materials at cost from this business however they refuse that offer. Therefore, if the deposit was not a price hold, it must be considered as such under the terms of the contract. Additionally, the agreement clearly states that estimates would be finalized within seven business days and that the deposit would "freeze" the prices, ensuring that Cedar Knoll would honor them even if price changes occurred. This promise was not fulfilled.The deposit I made was intended to "freeze" the price, as confirmed by the contract. Furthermore, the company’s website at that time stated that cost freezes are fully refundable.According to the Independent Distributor Benefits contract, Cedar Knoll "does not source materials outside their list, nor do they front costs for materials". However, they violated this clause by sourcing materials outside their list and fronting costs for my project. I did not agree to this contract breach. It is reasonable to assume that cedar knolls would NOT be fronting costs or ordering without a purchase order contract. As stated in our communications, I approved the creation of blueprints to receive an accurate quote, which was the next logical step in the process. However, Cedar Knoll proceeded with ordering materials, which was contrary to the terms of the contract and their own stated policies. In text exchanges, Dennis confirmed that the deposit was a "price hold" until the quote was provided. He stated: "Marina, 25k would be great; we can start assembling logs to be milled and drawing up blueprints for your permits if that works for you." This demonstrates that the money was intended to secure a spot in production hence the term "PRICE HOLD", not for materials or production to commence before an agreed-upon quote.Cedar Knoll did not follow their own stated process or deliver on the promises made in both the written agreement and their communications. The deposit, as explicitly stated, should have been refundable under the terms of the contract and website policies.
  
  Regards,
  
  ****** ******

  Business Response

  Date: 01/15/2025

  Dear Better Business Bureau:This is a case for United State Courts, as this claim is attempting to single-handedly redefine the legal terms and definition of a “price hold”.  In New York, a “price hold” refers to a contractual agreement or regulatory requirement that sets a fixed price for goods or services for a specified period, typically 12 months, after the contract effective date. This means that the prices for these items will remain unchanged during this period, and any subsequent price increases must be approved by the State of New York or comply with specific guidelines.We have proven that, by definition, this is not the case. A price hold does not exist without a price. On the other hand, a production deposit (or production security deposit, aka security deposit) does exist without a price, as it holds a place for fast-moving projects on our production schedule. On our site we clearly state that a production deposit is non-refundable. This person received stamped blueprints, a REScheck, and hours of internal labor from our staff. We specified, prior to the deposit being given, that the $25,000 would be used ASAP to assemble (source) materials for her fast-moving project, as we do not front the costs for these materials. The cost of these goods is neither here nor there. No business releases their purchasing costs, nor do they sell items at-cost. We are a business. We also do nAt the end of the day, the foundation of this argument does not support the claims. We request arbitration on this matter to clear our good name.