ComplaintsforPioneer Windows & Doors

• Initial Complaint

  22/03/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Please see the attached documentation which includes a letter to you the BBB, figures, as well as the receipt/contract for the work done. I hired Pioneer Windows and Doors on July 14th 2020 to replace one living room bow window, a dining room window, two bedroom windows, one basement window, and my front door. The total cost of the service was $10,500.00 which included both the purchase of the windows and the install. This has been paid in full and the work was completed on October 3rd of 2020. The windows included a lifetime warranty. The original contract is included at the end of this document. The primary reason for the window replacement was to address a draft with my old living room bow window. I specifically requested the new window install be properly insulated and sealed to prevent a draft moving forward. This was not done and in fact the draft problem has been made considerably worse with the new window. Ice can now be seen forming along the bottom of the new window on the inside of my home despite my home heating being set to 22ºC. This was never experienced with the old window. The second major issue of concern is that each new window installed by Pioneer now has excessive moisture buildup along the window sill and frame inside my home. This is leading to regular and consistent mould growth along the window frame and caulking. The company maintains that the issues related to moisture buildup are a result of high humidity levels in my home, passing the blame onto me. This is despite my home having two dehumidifiers and a normal humidity level of 35%. Normal home humidity levels are between 30-40% in winter and these levels should not leave condensation along windows (1). I believe that the moisture present on the sill and frame of the windows is a result of poor insulation leading to unnecessarily cold windows and excessive condensation. I have contacted the company on several occasions to have them assess and repair the window install. The business has all but outright refused to do any additional work with the windows. The business appears to be buying time with this as it has now been approximately 1.5 years since the window install and no real effort has been made by the company to assess or repair the window install. On the single occasion they did return to my home the business manager requested that the contractor conduct repairs and the contractor outright refused to do any additional work on the windows. In addition to this I have been told by the company that having anyone else repair my window install will void the warranty included with the windows. In January of 2022 I had a home inspector assess my windows to the best of their ability (note they are not experts on window installation). The home inspector noted several aspects of the windows as being satisfactory to poor and requiring replacement, repair, or servicing. The inspector noted that a window expert should be consulted for a full assessment. The official report of the inspector can be made available upon request. The two major issues outlined above are in addition to both messy and sloppy workmanship on the install of each window. It is difficult to outline all problem areas with the windows as each window was installed poorly and sloppily. *************************************************************************************************************** I am reporting this complaint to the Better Business Bureau in hope that you are able to help me resolve this issue with Pioneer Windows and Doors. Pioneer Windows and Doors no longer has my trust to assess or repair their window install. Ideally I would like a refund for their subpar service. These funds would then go toward a proper repair/replacement of the windows. Thank you for your time and assessment of this complaint. I look forward to speaking and working with you further.

  Business response

  06/04/2022

  Business Response /* (1000, 10, 2022/03/23) */ Hello and thank you for your comments. Pioneer windows and Doors is a reputable company and our ** BBB record i of over 14 years is proof to our commitment to supply our clients and advise them as proper and professional as possible. Mr ***** has already contacted Ministry of Consumer affairs where we tried a mediation process where we explained to the mediator our company's position with regards to the above mentioned matter. The Mediator has heard both sides and dismissed his claim. ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Mr ***** speaks about receiving a refund but at no part of his claim does he discuss that our windows are leaking water or broken in any way. Mr ***** goes on and on about mold build up and moisture build up, our windows DO NOT cause that. Moisture build up is a result of excessive humidity in the house, the mold usually comes as a result of the excessive humidity and dirt build up. The fact that his windows have moisture build up actually prove the fact that no hot air is escaping the house and the windows are doing the job which is saving energy in the home. This moisture issue does not happen in the summer, and that's an evidence that it has a direct result of heat in the home. We have tried to explain this over and over, we have tried to have a site visit where client was extremely ****, client arrived almost an hour late while we were waiting on the street for him. Overall we feel this client is trying to ***** our company for a refund which we are not prepared to give. Please advise us how we should proceed on this matter as it seems he is just failing to understand his issues. **** Consumer Response /* (3000, 13, 2022/03/26) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) ******************************************************************** March 25, 2022 Dear Better Business Bureau, I am very disappointed with Pioneer's response to my initial complaint and they appear to have resorted to attacking my character by labelling me as a ***** and claiming that I am attempting to ******* their business. I can assure the Better Business Bureau that this is not the case. I am a consumer who had hired Pioneer Windows and Doors to replace the previously reported windows and door. Their install was done poorly with insu$cient insulation and has led to moisture and mould accumulation along the windows and doors they have installed. As a consumer I am speaking up for myself and only reporting an honest account of my experience with the work completed by Pioneer. In response, Pioneer has been very uncooperative and currently refuse to conduct any additional assessment of the windows and have refused any additional repair to their install. Their latest e%orts to label me as a ***** attempting to ******* their business is an inaccurate depiction of me and the circumstances. With regards to my complaint to consumer protection Ontario, Pioneer has claimed in their response that "The Mediator has heard both sides and dismissed his(my) claim." This is a gross mischaracterization of events. You will see in the attachment uploaded with Pioneer's response on March 24th that the email from consumer protection said "The ministry has determined that continuing to mediate is not likely to result in a resolution to the dispute." This is not a dismissal of my complaint ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************. *************************************************************************** It is my hope that I am able to resolve this issue without legal action as this process can become very costly and time intensive. I think it is best for all parties involved to attempt to resolve this issue without formal legal action. As I mentioned in my initial complaint Pioneer continues to claim that the moisture buildup and mould growth is a result of excessive humidity in the home. Pioneer o%ers no proof or support for this being the case in my home. At this stage, their claim amounts to no more than an opinion as no proper assessment of the windows has been conducted. As I mentioned in my initial complaint I have two dehumidi'ers in my home and my home maintains a relative humidity of 35% measured using several separate humidity gauges. Health Canada recommends that a home's relative humidity be kept between 30 and 55% in winter and that humidity levels below 30% can lead to adverse health e%ects ( ****************************). It 1 is also worth noting that there are no additional moisture problems in my home beyond those experienced with Pioneer's windows. With all due respect to Je%, I don't think he is aware of the work the installer did and I don't understand why Pioneer has refused to properly assess and/or repair their work. In December of 2020, as a result of my complaints to Pioneer, ***** (Pioneer employee/manager) agreed to redo the insulation and caulking for the bottom of my bow window. This, in e%ect, is an admission from Pioneer that the initial installation of my bow window was inadequate. I have included at the end of this letter screenshots of several text messages from ***** agreeing to the repair. No date for this work was ever set and this work was never completed. Pioneer has since changed their stance and have now denied any responsibility for the problems experienced with the windows. It is a point of note that Pioneer's response to the Better Business Bureau accepts no responsibility while in the past they have agreed to do partial repairs that they never conducted. Pioneer has stated in their response that "The fact that his(my) windows have moisture build up actually prove the fact that no hot air is escaping the house and the windows are doing the job which is saving energy in the home." This is not an accurate statement and fails to acknowledge that poorly insulated windows can lead to the buildup of moisture. The windows, window frames, and window sills installed by Pioneer are very cold in the winter. This was reported in my original complaint and demonstrated though both the formation of ice on the windows inside my home as well as a temperature reading showing more than a 10ºC di%erence between the temperature near the windows and and temperature of my home. It was included in the home inspector report that there are issues with both insulation and proper sealing of the windows. A copy of the home inspectors report can be made available to the Better Business Bureau upon request. The reason this issue is not likely to happen in summer is because the windows aren't cold due to warmer outdoor temperatures. I do not believe that the disagreement between Pioneer and myself is a case of my word versus theirs. I think a reasonable course of action could be to have an appropriate, independent, and neutral 3rd party assess and evaluate the work of Pioneer. Pioneer has shown no interest in 'xing, resolving, or assessing the nature of the moisture problems. It is a point of note that Pioneer's response also failed to respond to several issues pointed out in my original complaint including the cold temperature around the window frame and sill, the ice formation inside my home, the cracked window opening in my home, the warping and sticking of the window in my daughters room as well as the signi'cant gaps seen in the caulking. 2 It is my view that the severity of the problems resulting from Pioneer's window install, their current position on the matter, and their avoidance of previously promised repairs constitute reasonable grounds to request a refund. In particular, I believe the windows installed in the master bedroom and in my daughters room to be too big for the window openings and thus do not leave adequate room for proper insulation. This likely renders these windows irreparable. Due to the screw in the bottom of my dining room window this installation is also likely irreparable. I would like to thank the Better Business Bureau for your e%orts in facilitating some form of mediation. It is my hope that we can bring this to an amicable resolution for all parties involved. Kind Regards, **** ***** ****************************************************************************************************** Business Response /* (4000, 15, 2022/03/28) */ Mr *****, You repeatedly accuse our windows to be poorly insulated. We have many texts from you being happy with our windows and requiring a little more caulking. When we showed up to your house on a schedualed service call you decided to show up almost an hour late and when we didn't really see any issues with your windows you asked us to leave. Your humidity level at 35%? When covering a window with window covering a hot air gets trapped behind it there is no room for air to circulate and it results in surface condensation. We recommend to put your humidifier down to 20-25% as I don't think your home readings are accurate. The real reason you have nothing in warmer months is because your furnace is off, not be use as you claim our windows are not insulated properly. When turning on air conditioning, is there any insulation issues? The windows we use Are insulated and are eligible for government rebates, since the new program was brought back in fall of 2021 we have installed many many homes that have recieved their eligibility for energy star rebates. If you want to resolve this amicable as you claim you should stop ********* us and start thinking perhaps we have a good point. ************************************************************************************************************ **** Consumer Response /* (4200, 17, 2022/04/04) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) ***************************************************** At this stage I am asking for the complaint mediation case to be closed. Based on their most recent response I don’t believe Pioneer to be acting in good faith nor do they appear to take my complaints seriously. Pioneer continues to focus solely on the moisture buildup along the window frames and sills while ignoring the numerous other issues I have pointed out in my original complaint. They continue ************ the unsupported and unproven claim that the moisture buildup is a result of high humidity levels in my home and are attempting to characterize me as not understanding what I’m talking about. I $nd their response to be woefully inadequate and does not rise to the gravity of my complaint. ****************************************************************************** It is a point of note that Pioneer has repeatedly ignored the demonstrated ice formation along the windows inside my home, the stark temperature di%erence between my home temperature and the temperature along the window sill and frame, as well as the home inspectors report indicating issues related to window insulation. At the same time, they claim that there are no issues with the window insulation in my home. Regarding the moisture buildup, their position remains, without evidence or proof, that humidity levels in my home are too high and are claiming that the multiple humidity gauges in my home are inaccurate. I $nd this position to be nonsensical as it ignores the clear evidence of exceedingly cold windows mentioned above. In addition to this, Pioneer continues to ignore several other issues in my complaint including a broken vinyl frame, the warped window in my daughter’s room, a broken window opening, gaps in the caulking, and screws through the bottom of the window. I would like to note in response to Pioneer that insulation issues are experienced in the summer. The windows become abnormally warm on hot summer days despite the air-conditioning in my home maintaining a cool 22ºC inside the home. At this stage, I believe Pioneer has made their position clear. They have demonstrated no interest in mediating in good faith nor rectifying any of the damage they have done to my home through their window instillation. Pioneer has been given ample opportunity to rectify this situation. I am now requesting that we close this mediation case as Pioneer has chosen to not work with us on this issue. I would like to thank the Better Business Bureau for attempting to facilitate mediation with Pioneer. It is my hope that this complaint can be posted to Pioneer’s BBB pro$le and be re&ected in their BBB rating. I wish to share my experience with Pioneer as a cautionary tale to other consumers. Kind Regards, **********

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