Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:09/08/2024

  Type:Billing Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

   
  Complaint: 22107747
  
  I am rejecting this response because: He lied about a number of things. What he said about my wife was supposed to be joking conversation, but it is ok whatever he thinks on that. The main lie is that I never at any time ask him for free work. The bill that I attached to the first email, quoted plumbing and electrical. He was aware we were getting washer and dryer, so I told I thought the wiring and plumbing was already covered in the full payment. Though, now he is playing tricks that where was dryer mentioned on the quote. If he did the job in May, the problem would not have happened, but I guess he already used the money and now he needs money to pay the people he hired in July. I attached a text message from June 30 about the quote of the dryer work. He said the quote was for parts only, because that was the agreement and I paid him. He never at anytime told me I will pay separate labour for that job until August 6, after the whole process was already abandoned. I believe it is within my right to bargain and ask for things to be done in a certain way. Both times when the location changed, he never told me it will attract additional cost. The only picture he sent me was counter tops, which had nothing to do with location changes. The first time he will discuss additional charges with me was after August 1, and he was supposed to have finished the work by July 28. He himself promised July 28 without discussing any extra cost at any time. However, after I contacted him on August 1st, he said he was not happy that I am complaining. This is a job that was fully paid since April 2024. Who was supposed to be unhappy and complain if not the customer. Infact, I eventually asked him for what the extra cost is on August 6 because I was confused about it all, and I still agreed to proceed to pay him the extra cost but I told him, it would be after work is completed on the new date of Aug 15 that he provided, because I don't trust that he will not disappear again for another two months. However, we could not agree and then he said he is abandoning the job. At that point I asked him for the materials that had been fully paid for, then he said I will have to pay him 150 for dryer labour. I agreed to that and I told him in the text that if he is abandoning the job, he will be owing me for the part of the work not completed and all the materials needed to finish it -at least for the original length, since his sudden claim after August 1 is that the extra length will attract extra cost. If you can ask him to even send you pictures of the material, I doubt if he has them, because I have never seen them.

  If he claims that I owe him 150 for the dryer labour, my own claim is that he is owing me the labour -at least 250-for the portion not completed +plus all the materials - 

  For the sake of moving forward, I am willing to let go of the of whatever payment he is owing me, and I am only asking for the Material - sink, tap, exhaust and the items needed for trimming and plumbing at the original length.

  Now, I am wondering why a contractor will not provide a full address for his business on an official quote sent via email, if not because he is used to doing things in a shady way and does not want customer to have access to him.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************

  r extra labour. I had ask him twice to change the location of where the cabinet will be and he came to measure it twice. I also asked him to help connect the electrical for the dryer, which he did but I paid $132 for materials separately. Now that he has abandoned the project, he gave me a condition of extra labour due to the change of location, and to also pay him for the labour of the dryer electrical work. He quoted $318.56 and that he will complete the job by Aug 15. I agreed, but only with the condition that I will only pay him after job is completed, because I don't want him to disappear for another whole month, but he disagreed and wants full payment again.I then asked him for all the remaining materials that was fully paid for originally (sink, tap, exhaust and materials for the plumbing and trimming of the cut carpet). He then said unless I pay the $150 for the labour of dryer connection, he will not deliver the material. Also that only sink, tap and exhaust is what he has.

  Business Response

  Date: 11/08/2024

  In early March of 2024 The complainant contacted ************ regrading a renovation project. M ***** attended the property located at ******************************************************************************; M ***** had a conversation with the complainant and discuss the following. 1) Renovating his finished basement to add a wall to create 2 rooms, adding a kitchenette with Heating element ,sink, and taps, as well as an entrance way through the garage area to include modifying the garage door to allow for the installation of a man door within the garage door.  A quote was assembled and M ***** returned to the residence to discuss this quote with the complainant. While discussing the quote the complainants wife asked M ***** to come into the kitchen where she asked if a window could be installed as there were none in the kitchen at present. M ***** explained what was required and stated that he would put together a quote to do that work also. The wife responded "what do you mean a quote, you will already be working here, so shouldn't this be included in the same price as the basement work" M ***** replied, "No that is a separate job and requires more work and materials" The wife responded, "well then don't bother with it"  The complainant decided to go ahead with the basement renovation, and was told by M ***** that the process required a 50% deposit and the balance upon completion. The complainant stated "Ohhh well we thought maybe you could do the work and then once we rent the two rooms our for a couple of months , then we could pay you, as we don't have the money at the moment. M ***** replied, "No that is not how this works, and no contractor will work that way"  M ***** told the complainant that once they had the funds worked out they could call and we could start things over again. The complainant agreed to send M ***** a $500 deposit to secure work in the fall for the project.   

  In early April the complainant contacted M ***** and asked if he could just do the kitchenette (counter, taps, sink, tiles, etc) and skip the walls, and entrance for now and they could be done at a later date and could he work out a price for that . M ***** worked out the pricing and  contacted the complainant with this quote and explained(as he was now cautious about the payment  from this customer) that the cost would have to be paid in full before the job was started. The complainant did not li8ke this and tried to argue for just a 50% deposit, but M ***** insisted. The complainant was told that he was being given a very good price as it could be made up on the completion of the full project in the fall once he was renting the rooms(he agreed and stated he had other quotes and this one was by far the best quote). The complainant finally agreed and a few days later sent M ***** the amount of $1324, with which when added to the $500 deposit they had sent would cover the cost of the project.  A general timeline was given for the project, with the understanding that they had waited and now M ***** was getting busy with other projects. 

  The project was started and the materials were sourced and pictures sent to the complainant. M ***** went to the residence and took measurements and laid out an outline of where the kitchenette would go, including tile layout, counter layout etc. The layout was approved by the Complainant. While there the complainant stated that he had purchased a washer and dryer set for his laundry room and would need wiring and receptacles installed for those also. M ***** agreed to do the work and told him e would let him know the cost once he worked it out. The cost was given to the complainant and the  work was completed., ************ asked the complainant for payment to which the complainant replied "I thought it was part of the same job" M ***** replied, "No we went through this already and you were informed that it was separate and not included in the original quote and thus is to be paid separately" The complainant stated "I dont understand, we told you we bought a washer and dryer set and that we need the electrical done for it, so I thought it was included" M ***** replied "You buying a washer and ***** doesn't mean that someone should wo the wiring for it for free"  M ***** insisted that the fee for parts and labor be paid. The complainant was sent the fee for the parts and given the cost for the labor.   The complainant sent the fee for the parts but not the labor. 

  The complainant then told M ***** that he would like to change the location of the kitchen counter and tiles from 2 feet from bathroom wall to 6 feet from bathroom wall. M ***** remeasured and recalculated the requirements. 

  The complainant then 4 days later told M ***** that he again wanted to move the location of the kitchen counter and tiles from the 2nd location to 12 feet from the bathroom and under the window in the room. M ***** again remeasured and recalculated the requirements, and informed the complainant that this would require more materials(longer drainage pipes, longer water lines, more drywall to cover them and more labor. The complainant acknowledged this fact. 

  M ***** started the project and cut our the carpeting required, laid out and installed tilework where cabinets were going, placed cabinets, and countertop. Once this was done, the complainant started to criticize the work and materials, claiming "I dint know the cabinets were not new. I thought we were getting all new materials, the work doesn't look finished, Im not sure I like the way it looks" M ***** replied. "You were sent pictures of everything, you only had a very limited budget, you seem to want a $10,000 kitchenette on a $2000 budget........the work isn't finished by far" and M ***** pointed out that the trimming still hadn't been done, the sink was not installed yet, and he still hadnt even paid for the electrical for the dryer, but was complaining already. M ***** then told the customer that no further work would progress until the fee for the dryer wiring was paid and the cost of the extra materials were paid for (due to the movement of the location, not once but twice. M ***** left the residence and waited for the complainant to forward funds that were due(as M ***** was already skeptical about payments at this point, there was going to be no further work until all payments were made) 

  The complainant called M ***** 3 days later and asked when the work would start and when it was expected to be finished. M ***** informed him that the outstanding funds had not been paid and the work was not proceeding until this was done. The complainant called M ***** repeatedly, but the conversation exactly the same each time with the complainant trying to play dumb and stating "I was aware, I didn't know, I assumed, you never told me , the quote says electrical so it should include the dryer with the kitchen electrical"  This was the conversation over and over again, so M ***** did not take any more calls as the complainant would just deny what was said in the last call, so texts or emails were the only form of conversation left. 

  After all of this, M ***** and the complainant came to an arrangement that M ***** would drop off the sink, taps and exhaust fan upon payment of the $150 for the dryer electrical work and that would be the end of it. The complainant agreed . Then the complainant decided to change this arrangement and wanted M ***** to provide all materials needed to complete the project. M ***** refused and explained to the complainant that there were many hours of labor involved due to his changing the location not once but twice, of having to return materials that were purchased and the time that that took due to him changing location of ki9tchenette not once but twice. The complainant said he didn't care about the time involved or the labor involved, he just want all the materials to be delivered, so he could finish the project regardless of what it cost M ***** in funds, time and labor.

   

  These are the actual facts of this dispute and are all documented and witnessed. The complainant has a knack for ignoring what does not suit or support him. For playing dumb and claiming "I dint know, I was told, I thought, or anything else that he can use to try to justify his actions. 

   

  Business Response

  Date: 15/08/2024

  "My wife was only joking"    "I told him I bought a washer and dryer so he should have know I wanted him to do the electrical and plumbing for it" " The quote says electrical and plumbing, I thought that meant including any electrical or plumbing I wanted done and not just for the job he was quoting"  "I didn't understand" "I thought he new" "I expected" "He never told me" 

  Just line after to line to try to justify this person getting as much for free as he could. 

  I gave this person a great price on the quoted job to help them out, as they couldn't afford to do the original job that they wanted, but instead took my advice to do it in parts instead. In response he expected to change, the job, add to the job and demand top of the line materials that he couldnt pay for after he was sent pictures of the materials and they were installed. He wanted a $10,000 job but only wanted to to pay less then $2000 for it. 

  After the dryer electrical was done this person claimed he couldnt pay for the parts and labor and claimed they should be included in the price for the quote provided. To avoid ny argument , we charged him for parts and I told him I wasn't going to charge for the labor(again to help him out) He paid for the parts only. 

  Then he decided to change the location of the kitchenette job which required more measuring and recalculating materials and the return of materials already purchased, then he decided a few days later to move it again, again requiring more re measuring and materials calculations, as well as the return of materials already purchased again. He was informed of the extra time and cost to move the location each time, he acknowledged this, but I can only guess he decided to ignore it as he had no intention of paying it. 

  Once the carpeting was cut, tiles were installed and cabinets and countertop were installed, he started to complain about the quality of materials, stating" I expected it to be fancier and newer (the only used item was a good quality cabinet, everything elses was new to fit in the budget) even though he saw pictures of the items and they were actually in his basement for three days before they were installed......................suddenly after they are installed he has complaints about them. 

  At this point I decided that I wasnt playing his game anymore. I wasnt giving him any more free work. He would have to pay for the dryer electrical (or he could pay for the time it took to layout and move the project three time(initial and two moves) and the return of materials twice. 

  There was an agreement to have him pay the $150 for the dryer electrical(or the moving of the kitchenette) and he would be provided the sink, taps and exhaust fan purchased. Both parties agreed to this and to put an end to this relationship., Then two days later decided that he wanted more materials but we should get no more money other then the $150 for the dryer electrical(nothing for the remeasuring, recalculations of kitchenette, or the time to return the materials not once but twice) 

  I have all the texts of all of the conversations and they will support my position. 

  The claimant makes excuses for everything that happens and just plays dumb to try to get away with it (It was a joke, I thought, I didnt understand, they should have known, how was I supposed to know and the list goes on and on.

  If the complainant wants a fair and equitable end to this here is what is fair. 

  Dryer electrical $150 Remeasure and recalculated movement 2 hours @$70 per hour $140  Return of materials x2 2 hours @$70 per hour $140  Total $430.00  Then the sink, taps, exhaust fan and required plumbing and electrical wiring will be delivered. 

   

  This is my offer to settle this matter and no other offer will be entertained. 

   

  M Davey 

  ************

  Customer Answer

  Date: 15/08/2024

   
  Complaint: 22107747
  
  I am rejecting this response because: He is trying to trample on my rights as a customer. 

  Please ask him to attach any evidence or conversation  where he told me of the labour and extra cost of material before Aug 1. 

  I Have provided evidence of where he promised to complete the job by July 28. If he was honest about additional cost, then, how come he gave me a date of completion without any new bill. I did not put him under duress for the quote that I paid in full since April. 

  He is claiming that he returned material, and that every visit to measure has a cost , when he was the one that delayed the job for three months. If a customer requested changes, is it not the responsibility of contractor to educate or inform the customer that the changes will attract additional fees?. He never did. Yet, He gave me July 28 for completion of the work .

  It was after I did not hear from him and that I reached out on  August 1st, that he started saying because I complained (only once about neatness and quality of cabinet)...so he is no longer doing the work unless I pay. Why did he not discuss it and give me the bill before July 28?.  When I complained, he told that is what the budget can buy, and that was the first and only I talked about it. Just for him to disappear, and then started cooking up ways to get more money with the threat that he can not continue the work.

  It was on August 6 that I ask him to even tell me the amount of the extra cost we are talking about. He gave me ******, which I agreed to pay only when the job is completed, because he does not keep to promise of timeline. He refused, and said I need to pay in full before he will resume the work. Out of that new bill, he said 150 is for Dryer electrical labour. At first I agreed to that, in exchange for him to drop materials purchased for the Job. However, it occurred to me that why will I pay this unprofessional man, when he is abandoning a work 50%? Who will pay for the labour of new contractor? That will be a double loss for me.

  Now, he has changed 318, to 420 for the first time. This is dubious, and It is unacceptable. I believe that his problem is that he spent the money and he has no financial capacity to pay for the expense he already charged , since he delayed the job for over two months. Now, he wants to bully his way through because he is elderly and white. Yes, I am black, but not dumb as you called me. 

  Please, ask him to attach picture of materials in question and the receipts showing when he bought them. I challenge him to show us. I bet he does not have it.

  I need my materials, and I am not owing him, because he owes me labour paid in full for the portion of the job that he abandoned.

   

   

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************

  Business Response

  Date: 16/08/2024

  "He is old and White"!!!!!!...........thats racism. I now understand the complainant position. He feels that if he uses his race card he can get away with anything he wants to. 

  He was informed of every step and cost as well as additional costs for dryer, moving of location, extra materials and time involved, he just chose to ignore that information as it didnt fit in with his agenda.

  Playing dumb and feigning ignorance does not get you what you want. Any adult should know that.

  The time line for the project was as it was as the complainant was informed when first contact was made in March that once May comes around I get very busy and time is in very short supply. They chose to wait to start the project and as such delayed it by their own actions. 

  I have a witness that will provide a statement that the claimant was told about extra c0osts and just brushed it off. 

  The claimant has now ignored the fact that pictures were sent to him of materials, and that the cabinets, counter and tiles sat in his house for days before they were installed and he never complained about them once and only started to complain when he was informed that the extra work he was causing due to moves and added work was going to start costing more. 

   

  Whenever he is proven to be wrong, he just ignores the facts and statements and just changes the subject to something that favors him more. 

  My previous offer stands. 

  A complaint will be filed with the Canadian Human Rights Commision as well as my legal counsel for further review. Racism is a serious matter and should not be used by anyone WHITE or BLACK 

   

  M Davey 

  ************

   

  Customer Answer

  Date: 16/08/2024

   
  Complaint: 22107747
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I am just hear laughing at at your poor way of creating excuses. It is obvious that clear communication is an issue for you. You did not respond to why you never discuss  extra cost with me and you gave me July 28 as completion date, and it was not until August 6 that I ask you for the cost you are unlawfully claiming, that you then gave me 318.56. 

  Go back to your text messages, and response here to count how many times you have called me dumb. If you don't know, that is a bully's word, but the people you are escalating to will educate you. They will also help your grammar to know that there is a difference between the word "elderly" that I used and the word "old" that you use for yourself.  Everything here is recorded and there is no where I said old. The way you manufacture that, is the way you have manufactured various claims, without any evidence.

  The only picture you sent me is for counter top. I challenged you to provide pictures of the remaining materials and receipt to show date that you got them, but you did not. Once again, I am asking you to present that evidence.

  You are a bully, but I will not allow you trample on my rights. 

  If anyone is assessing this, I humbly ask that a third party review all the claims submitted. 

  I await the delivery of the materials that were paid for, including items for trimming and plumbing at the original length.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************