Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:13/12/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  We hired Magnolia to completely renovate our house in summer 2022 and they promised it would be done by October 2022. By September of 2023 the house was still not done and Magnolia informed us they were abandoning the contract. However, there is ~ $140k worth of work to be done (siding, soffit, *****, front porch, mechanical system, electrical, plumbing, finishing the basement). We have also incurred $10,000's in costs to fix deficiencies as the construction work done on site is subpar (e..g, replacing burst pipes that were not properly insulated, etc.).

  Business Response

  Date: 22/12/2023

  Thank you for providing us the opportunity to respond to the concerns raised regarding the renovation project carried out by Magnolia. It's crucial to provide a comprehensive perspective to ensure a clear understanding of the situation.
  
  Firstly, we would like to emphasize that Magnolia did not have any intention to abandoning the contract. Our commitment to completing projects is unwavering, and we take pride in delivering high-quality workmanship.
  
  From our standpoint, delays were encountered due to several factors. When we commenced the project, we were informed by the client that the architect they had hired was prepared to provide all final architectural drawings and that they were eager for us to start. However, we experienced delays in getting started as we awaited finalized architectural drawings from the clients architect for months. 
  
  Once underway, the project faced challenges as changes to the original scope of work were made by the client on the fly, impacting timelines. While we adapted swiftly to certain changes, structural modifications necessitated careful consideration and engineering approvals. Some changes (e.g. placement of tiles) are much easier to accommodate than others (e.g. movement of walls from the original plans). When changes are made to the scope of work we have a process in place that needs to be signed off by the client. These change orders, standard procedure in such cases, were unfortunately met with refusal to pay for the additional work required. 
  
  We acknowledge there is work left to be done at the clients home and are more than willing to complete it if being paid for services. It is important to clarify that the estimate of $140k for outstanding work is inaccurate. Estimates are based on industry assessments of the specific requirements of the project. We would be please to provide a transparent breakdown of the costs involved and answer any questions related to these costs.
  
  Addressing concerns about subpar work on bursting pipes, we want to emphasize that all our plumbers are licensed professionals, and we stand by the quality of their work. We are ready to address specific issues and ensure the highest standards are met.
  
  Another challenge we encountered which delayed the project was the strained relationship between the client and their neighbour. Unfortunately we were not informed of this issue beforehand. Their negative relationship hindered our team's access to the side of the house, resulting in unavoidable delays. Had this information been communicated earlier, we could have adjusted our timelines accordingly.
  
  Another delay was attributed to the client's relationship with our trades, presenting a challenge in securing trades willing to work with this client. This situation led to substantial turnover, strain, and anxiety among our trades.
  
  Magnolia remains committed to completing the outstanding work on the project if compensated. We would however require any changes to architectural and design plans be communicated and approved through the proper process, including signed change orders. If the client is willing to pay for the additional services required, we are prepared to proceed promptly.
  
  We are open to discussing or addressing further concerns.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 23/12/2023

   
  Complaint: 21001830
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Unfortunately, the response from Magnolia is inaccurate and skirts the fundamental issue, which is that they have not completed the work they promised to do for the price they set and to which we agreed.  They also repeat a number of excuses that are inaccurate or untrue and that have been refuted and debunked over the past year. Specifically:

  1. This complaint is about completion costs, not timelines. For example, they make excuses regarding my neighbour (untrue: we communicated that our neighbour was unkind and unfriendly before Magnolia took the job. We informed the owner when we first met and the estimate team when they told us the cost and each project manger in turn), and my architect causing delays. Neither of these are relevant to the cost of the project. All construction work was done through excellent access in my own driveway and there was no need to access my neighbours property. Moreover, Magnolia simply did no work while we waited for the architect's final plans, so that delay cost them $0. Thus, these issues do not impact Magnolia's ability to complete the job for the price agreed. They were also known to all parties before the contract was signed (which was after the city approved plans were provided).

  2. We did not interfere with the trades. We did visit the site often and discussed the project with trades and the owner of Magnolia did not like this. The reason they did not like this is that when the client talks to the trades they learn that Magnolia is deceptive and untrustworthy. Furthermore, when we did not visit the site, work unfailingly ground to a halt and did not resume until we got upset. Magnolia told us repeatedly that work was not proceeding because the trades were unhappy but when I talked to the trades I learned that they weren't proceeding because Magnolia had not paid their bills (or that cheques were repeatedly bouncing) and they were owed a lot of money. Our relations with all of the trades was excellent, as evidenced by the fact that most of those trades have continued to work for us directly to finish he job that Magnolia has abandoned and many of them are now suing Magnolia for moneys owed (I can provide evidence from numerous trades if necessary).

  3. We agreed to all relevant and fair change orders. We did not ask for any walls to be moved before they were built, we did not move any structural walls without agreeing to change orders. The change orders we rejected were either cosmetic or unfair because they asked us to pay again for things that were already in our contract. In several cases we were asked to agree to change orders up to a year after work was done and without having discussed it with us or asking us to approve a change order before the work was underway. Applying a change order up to a year in retrospect is illegal under ******* Law. We are prepared to address each and every change order and demonstrate that they were either unnecessary. already included in scope, or were requested after the work had already been done without consulting us.

  Finally, with regard to central issue of this complaint, which is the amount and cost of work remaining: Magnolia's "industry estimates" are not relevant. They abandoned the contract and we have followed standard legal approaches to finishing the work. We have contacted and obtained quotes from multiple reputed businesses in Ottawa and gone with the best price from reputable businesses. By law, Magnolia is required to cover our costs to finish the work that they legally agreed to complete in our contract. We have followed appropriate procedures and now demand compensation of our costs, in line with standard legal practices for remedying abandoned contracts under ******* contract and construction law.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *******************************

  Business Response

  Date: 13/02/2024

  **** and I will be meeting March 7 at 9:30 AM at a local coffee shop thank you. 
  
  *********;

  Customer Answer

  Date: 25/06/2024

   
  Complaint: 21001830
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  "Over the past 5+ months my wife and I have made every effort to meet with **************** or other representatives of Magnolia. This has included regularly communicating with ****************, advocating for phone  calls and meetings, and rescheduling our work and private lives to be available for these meetings or phone calls. Unfortunately, **************** has in almost every instance cancelled these planned calls or meetings at the last minute, or simply not answer the phone or not shown up, usually without the courtesy of a notification that he would not be able to attend. In the one meeting that **************** did attend, he was not prepared to discuss the issues, despite several messages from him (and a formal letter from his lawyers) indicating that he had been gathering the required documents to support an informed discussion in the preceding weeks and months. Thus, and despite our best efforts, we have been unable to get Magnolia to sit down and discuss the issues, as they promised, let alone to address the existing problems. Instead, **************** spent most of this meeting making vague threats about causing me professional harm at my workplace, and repeatedly stating, somewhat paradoxically, that we needed to have a meeting. Based on these repeated attempts to organize a constructive meeting over the past 5 months, we have unfortunately been forced to come to the conclusion that Magnolia is not honestly interested in addressing the issues or finding a solution. Instead, we believe they are focused on delaying this process as much as possible. Based on the actions of **************** and Magnolia, we thus no longer believe that a sit down meeting alone with Magnolia is a productive pathway forwards, because we do not believe that they will show up for such a meeting, nor be prepared for such a discussion. We therefore now request that Magnolia agree to meet in the presence of an independent arbitrator in order to facilitate a fair and reasonable resolution to these issues.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *******************************

  Business Response

  Date: 03/07/2024

  The allegations made by ******************** are both unfounded and biased. Throughout our interactions, ******************** consistently refused to communicate with Magnolia representatives, insisting on speaking solely with the owner, ****************. Despite numerous attempts, ******************** and **************** were unable to find a mutually convenient time for a meeting. When **************** proposed potential meeting times, ******************** was unavailable and vice versa. Additionally, **************** has not received any responses to his most recent text messages sent to ******************** on June 19 or June 25.     

  The meeting in question took place in a busy coffee shop, despite ******************** repeated requests to hold the meeting at his office, where relevant documentation could be reviewed appropriately. The coffee shop environment was noisy, cramped, and not conducive to a productive discussion. **************** reiterated his preference to meet at the Magnolia office or his lawyers office. ******************** refused to meet at the Magnolia office, and Mr. ******* lawyer was in proceedings for the week at the time of his request. 
  
  Regarding the accusation of vague threats, this claim is entirely baseless. ******************** had previously posted false accusations about Magnolia on several online forums, which he later removed and apologized for. The discussion ******************** refers to was about these posts, during which **************** pointed out that rumors and false accusations can target anyone, including his company, himself, and ********************. This was not a threat but a statement about the prevalence of such issues. Following this conversation, ******************** removed the posts and issued an apology.
  
  **************** has continually sought to find a resolution and has offered to meet at the Magnolia office or his lawyers office. Given that ******************** owes Magnolia a payment, there is a strong interest in resolving this matter through a meeting. As previously mentioned, Magnolia is open to meeting with an arbitrator to settle this dispute amicably.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 11/07/2024

   
  Complaint: 21001830
  
  We appreciate that Magnolia has agreed to consider mediation/arbitration in this case. The Ontario Ministry of Public and **************** Delivery has agreed to mediate our dispute and have contacted Magnolia directly with documentation to formally agree to this process. I attach the document here for reference. I will consider this case on pause when this document has been signed and returned to the Ministry. We will re-open our complaint if there are any unwarranted delays or if the mediation process fails.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *******************************