ComplaintsforJohn Ray and Sons Inc

• Initial Complaint

  01/19/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  I signed a contract with John Ray & Sons after purchasing our home in June of 2023. I immediately requested for a boiler tune-up for cleaning and any recommendations for preventative maintenance or repair. After the boiler tune-up, we were left with no documentation on work performed during the visit, and a call to customer service only yielded minimal service notes stating it was serviced. Fast forward to December 30th 2023, I had black smoke coming from my chimney, 250 ppm CO in the house and a strong smell of fuel oil throughout. While waiting for John Ray to respond, I opened my boiler to find tremendous build up of black soot throughout the entire unit. Once the technician arrived and cleaned the boiler, he stated that the there was “no way this unit was cleaned” during the boiler tune up and that soot wouldn’t have accumulated that much in 2 months of use. After the cleaning was complete, the boiler was turned back on and heat was restored to the house. With thorough ventilation, it was clear that the smell of fuel oil and smoke would not clear the residence, with 5 ppm of VOC’s measured in the main living space. We checked into a hotel, and had fire restoration begin running HEPA fans and air scrubbers in the residence. The following day, I reached out to John Ray about the persistent odor and VOC’s present, with another technician to respond. The technician stated that the odor was persisting because the technician that came out the day of the incident installed the wrong nozzle off the van and that it was not operating correctly, and that the soot buildup was not from a lack of cleaning during the boiler tune-up, but a defective nozzle received by John Ray and installed on my boiler. My family spent 5 days in a hotel while Fire Restoration performed cleaning, air purification and ozone treatment to create a habitable living environment for my family to return home. When following up with John Ray, they refuse to cover our displacement and fire restoration.

  Business response

  02/14/2024

  This matter was referred to our insurance adjustor and is in the process of being resolved.

  Customer response

  02/14/2024

  Better Business Bureau: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.  We have reached settlement with the insurance adjuster. Regards, ****** *****

• Initial Complaint

  12/11/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Customer Service Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  11/28/23- we ran out of hot water, which odd never happened before, checked the water heater (propane heated) the pilot light was out, checked the propane tank, and we were out, completely out. Now we have automatic delivery with John Ray and sons, we have never had to call for a delivery since buying the house in 2017. I call on 11/29 to find out what is going on. Lady who I spoke to said their system showed us having 30% propane left, I assured her we were empty. (obviously something is wrong here if they showed us having 30% and we were empty) 11/30 delivery is made, spoke to delivery driver we were indeed 100% out of propane. He told me he needed to have someone come out and provide a safety test on the tank and system. then relight our pilot lights. Okay fine. They come out safety test our system all ok and relight my pilot light on my water heater and stove. Told me all set to go and left. Later that night my neighbor calls me and tells me there is a strong odor of propane outside by tank. Checked again in the am, still strong. Fire dept is called to house detected leak AT THE TANK the regulator was bad and leaking. (obviously the issue all along if we ran out and the system showed we still had 30% left) should have been caught during safety test?? john ray back out to house replace regulator on the tank and come to re light pilot lights again only this time we are told the water heater is out of code, yes the same one they relit on the day before. so over night it goes out of code, and we are told everything was okay be it was not. Now our water heater is red tagged over a ventilation issue....when we replaced said water heater to electric there was in fact adaquet ventilation. This was a scheme to charge us $2800 for a new water heater which is absolute robbery!!!!

  Business response

  12/20/2023

  December 19, 2023
  
  Better Business Bureau
  100 Bryant Woods South
  Amherst, NY  14228
  
  Re:         File No. ********                 ****** ******
  To Whom It May Concern,
  
  We appreciate the opportunity to respond to this customer’s complaint.
  
  On 11/29 we were advised the customer had run out of propane. Protocol is to perform  a  leak check  on the system  once the container has gas back in it.  A  delivery  truck  made the  delivery  and shut the tank  off. A  service  technician  was then  sent to perform the required leak check.
  
  The service tech went out and performed a leak check, which checks from the service valve into the appliances and piping system. No leaks  were  present for 4 minutes  per  company policy, this is over 30% longer than the NFPA standard of  3 minutes. The technician that performed the system leak check  did not see the leak at the service valve at that time due to being on site in the early evening in very low light. The technician then went and relit the pilot  light on the hot water heater, he did not notice at this time that the data tag did not state this was not rate for mobile home use.
  
  On 11/30, the customer smelled propane again. We sent a service tech out. At that time, he realized the leak was  coming from the  packing nut on the service valve on the tank. The leak was not found on the original call as the leak was minor. The technician then  completed another leak check for 4 minutes  after the leak on the service valve was fixed and the system still had no leaks.
  
  On the second call the technician realized that the propane hot water heater was not intended for use in a  mobile  home, as stated on the appliance data tag. This was unfortunately  missed  upon the original safety inspection completed on 3/10/20 by a technician  that is  no longer employed by the company. We red tagged the appliance and advised the customer the set up was unsafe and would need to  be  replaced to  be brought up to compliance.  
  
  We quoted Ms. ****** for a propane hot water heater that would be complaint for mobile home application. Ms. ****** then called us and advised she would get the tank replaced elsewhere. We were then advised the customer did get an electric hot water heater.
  
  None of these service calls were billed to the customer.
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  Nancy R***
  John Ray District Coordinator

• Initial Complaint

  02/18/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  We have been using John Ray since 2019 for our home heating oil. We resigned a contract with John Ray & Sons for 2023 and the past two deliveries we have received from them have been about $1.50 more per gallon than other companies within the area. We would get home heating oil from another company but John Ray charges $400 to terminate our contract. When we call to question why their price is so much higher than the other companies they cannot provide any answer other than "that is what we charge". I believe they are price gouging our deliveries to make up for when our last contracted ceiling price was lower than what they were charging other costumers.

  Business response

  02/21/2023

  We have spoken to the customer and resolved this matter.

• Initial Complaint

  02/08/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Jan. 26, 2023 Charged 60 cents more per gallon for my fuel. As you can see, I get a discounted rate based on my usage when compared to the averages. In January, I was charged the full amount, yet they claim that was my discounted rate. They price gouged because it is colder outside. I understand that the price of propane fluctuates, but it did not change by 60 cents per gallon on any reported pricing werbsite or from other companies that I spoke with. I called and asked for them to check my bill and they insisted that the cost went up that much, then chose to say as a big business, they have more overhead and have to charge more than the competition. I asked for proof of such a dramatic cost increase and they have not provided evidence to justify why my price jumped so much. In the past, when they charged my incorrectly, they acknowledged the error and corrected the bill. This time, they are throwing out my discounted rate, claiming it is still there and increasing my price to put more profit in their pockets because the temperature is lower outside. Please help fix this.

  Business response

  02/21/2023

  We have spoken with our customer and resolved this matter.

• Initial Complaint

  11/29/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  My 81 year old Aunt was charged $275 restocking fee because she changed companies to one that has a lower rate. I called John Ray to come pick up their tanks they did and they refunded her for the remainder of her propane of $409. Then they proceeded to bill her $275. For a restocking fee for refunding her. I feel like they are trying to take advantage of the elderly and she lives on social security and shouldn’t be charged this ridiculous amount.

  Business response

  12/08/2022

  Spoke with customers niece. Explained that John Ray does not charge to set the tanks but we do charge a fee to pick up the tanks. Agreed to remove the fee due to the customer misunderstanding of the policy. Customer satisfied. 

• Initial Complaint

  11/11/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  In July of 2022, I switched propane company's due to poor service and dissatisfaction with John Ray and Sons. John Ray and Sons then told me there was a removal fee of $275 plus tax to take back their tanks. They also said they would credit me for the propane that was left in the tank which was roughly 60 gallons. The credit amount would be based on market price and was to be added to the bill. I find it upsetting that I have to pay a company to take their property back, and get taxed on it. Therefore, I have not paid the bill. Also, I have not received funds owed for the propane left in the tank, nor has it been credited to the bills that have been sent to me. On 11/9/22 I called them asking about the refund/credit. They told me there was some digging to do and they would get back to me. They never did.

  Business response

  11/19/2022

  Spoke with customer. Apologized for the delay in getting the returned gallons getting posted to the account. Customer satisfied. 

  Customer response

  11/22/2022

  Better Business Bureau:  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ******** , and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.   Regards,  ****** ******** 

• Initial Complaint

  04/12/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  On Oct 1, 2021, we FULLY PAID FOR 400 gal of heating oil. No rush to deliver. They delivered only 165.9 gal on Oct 2nd. We learned our gauge was not working and the tanks were now full. We also learned that one of the tanks was leaking. I called and let them know to suspend deliveries until such time as we had them replaced. We put a temporary fix on the tank. We had to use the fuel in the tanks while watching them carefully. A very pleasant woman (I CANNOT remember her name!) told me to just call when we were ready for the rest of our fuel. I called to touch base on it later and specifically asked about the pricing. I was told not to worry, we had purchased it already. We made it through the tanks and had new ones installed and called for the remainder of the fuel to be delivered. 234.1 gal. They brought 140 gal. I called to inquire about the remaining 94 and was informed that we had to pay the current rate of $4.60 a gal and our initial payment amount was now used up. We feel cheated out of almost a hundred gal of fuel!! It was PAID FOR IN FULL when we ordered the 400 gal! We were told this is common practice! Had the woman I spoke to earlier TOLD me the price would change, we would have immed put an extra tank in to have our fuel delivered and sealed. (We would have been crazy NOT to!) We feel this company deliberately cheated us out of $250+ in fuel.

  Business response

  04/19/2022

  I spoke with this COD customer and explained why we could not save fuel from his original purchase. I also advised customer I would give him the fuel owed at the same price due to the misunderstanding. Customer is satisified. 

  Customer response

  04/20/2022

  Better Business Bureau: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.  I do not agree with their wording, as this was not a COD purchase.  It was PAID IN FULL months before.  I reluctantly send this to you, as I have no timeframe on just when and if this delivery will happen.    Regards, ******* *****

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩