ComplaintsforRoofing 502

• Initial Complaint

  02/28/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  July, 2019 1) approx. 15,000-16,000 dollars 2) rip off old roof, replace boards and put on new roof. A roof that worked properly in all aspects that a roof should 3) Roof is not vented properly and has caused major damage inside house and ceiling of carport. Roofer removed the passive vent that went across the entire house and replaced with 2 whirlybirds, then 3 small metal vents of some type. 4) He covered the whirlybirds in fall of 2019 claiming that was probably the source of new leaks. Came back next spring 2020, and installed the smaller metal vents. I continued to have the same water issues inside, he came back out and told me I was the cause of the issues. I had too many things in my house and that the roof was sound. There was nothing more he could do, he wasn't the cause of the problems. Even though I never had these issues even with the old roof that leaked in minor areas. I was also told that the sheeting boards rested on the rafters and that did not permit venting of the roof. The owner also said that many roofs were not vented at all and did just fine. Why was I not told when my roof was ripped off that it could not be vented? If it could not be vented, then why install whirlybirds and then the small metal vents? I also asked before I hired this company if someone would be present the entire time the roof was being installed to oversee. The owner assured me, he would be there. When an issue arose, I was there, having taken a day off work with no pay to make sure nothing happened. When this issue arose I looked outside for the owners truck and it was not there. I called him and it took several more hours for him to return. 5) I had called my home owners insurance in sept. 2019 to report this. They had a structural engineer here in Jan., 2023 I am attaching that report. 6) Major damage to inside of home

  

  Business response

  02/28/2023

  See attachment for original document response.

  Roofing 502 installed a new two-layer, modified bitumen roof on the home of ***** *****. After she continued to have bubbling paint problems near the ceiling in a bathroom, she contacted us. We went out to the house on several occasions, inspecting the roof for any sign of problem, since a new roof should not leak. We found no issues at all. The modified bitumen roof was properly installed and none of the seams were failing. The professional that *** ***** hired corroborated in his/her report that the roof was in good shape. The only question was the ventilation. The suggestion was that inadequate ventilation allowed for condensation on the ceiling and the area between the ceiling and roof.

  What the writer of the report does not know, and we do (and we relayed this to *** *****) is that the space between the rafters of the roof above her cathedral ceiling are filled with insulation, which inhibits air flow. The problem with most roof top ventilation systems, is that airflow is essential to prevent water from coming into the vents. The attic space should draw, much like a chimney draws. It is our analysis that reason the roof leaked to begin with was because of this.

  We installed turbine vents at first (whirlybirds), but when *** ***** complained that her bathroom paint was bubbling and we could find nothing wrong with the roof, we came back out and switched the turbine vents with a type of passive vent called "breather" vents. They allow air to go out, but will not allow air (or moisture) to go in. This was to provide some modicum of ventilation for the crawl space. And, in fact, is no evidence of leaking after they were installed (just condensation problems), so, for its part, the strategy worked. But as I explained to the homeowner, there was no way to vent the crawl space otherwise. If the author of the report noticed stains and condensation on the areas he could access (and she/he indicated they did not open up the roof), the condensation is there because the INSULATION INHIBITS AIRFLOW. It doesn't matter what type of ventilation is installed, whether ridge vents, whirlybirds, breather vents, or whatever. As long as the insulation blocks the pathway from the soffits to the vent, condensation will form.

  I noticed the homeowner had a habit of collecting cardboard boxes filled with book, magazines, and the like, and they were piled high throughout her home. I suggested to her that perhaps all that cardboard and paper was absorbing moisture and contributing to condensation on her ceiling. And that removing them may(?) mitigate the problem, for there were a lot of boxes. It was a suggestion. But otherwise, unless the insulation is removed from the narrow crawlspace between her cathedral ceiling and the roof we installed, which I don't think I would recommend, condensation will continue to be a problem.

   

  Customer response

  04/18/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: 

  MAIN POINTS FROM STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS' REPORT:

   

  1) Under "background" #c

        Contractor removed ridge vent and never replaced it....instead installed 2 whirlybird turbine vents.

         I have approximately 2500 sq. ft. of roof to be vented and the ridge vent also covered the carport

         which now has no venting, which I wasn't aware of until this engineers visit.

   

  2) Under "observations" #3

        3 passive vents were observed in middle  portion of roof.

        I have spoken with several different roofers, there should be a vent between each set of rafters on both

        sides of roof, so each space is vented. One roofing company looked up these vents and said based on

        the size of my roof and that I have cathedral ceilings, the roof could need between 9-18 vents for adequate

        ventilation.

   

     Under "observations" #5

       Engineer mentions carport "attic" is discolored and frost buildup.

       Since the ridge vent was removed, my carport now has NO ventilation. The ceiling of my carport is 

       falling down all over the area, large water stains, bowing down of ceiling, chunks falling on my cars, etc.

   

  3) Under "conclusions"

      1st bullet point - "Factors contributing to condensation in roof include "insufficient insulation and/or "ventilation"

     **I will also be addressing this "insufficient insulation" later in this response.

   

      2nd bullet point - This whole paragraph is very important:

       "removing ridge vent and replacing with other "vents" was a contributing factor to condensation"

   

       End of paragraph - ....size, spacing, number and construction of roof and roof vents suggest turbine and

        passive vents were not adequate to vent the space.

   

      3rd bullet point - Passive vents were inadequately flashed and may allow water infiltration into roof

   

      4th bullet point - Moisture has damaged light fixtures.

        I have at least 4-5 areas of my house where the lights have stopped working, other areas where the lights

         flicker, etc. I now have to get an electrician out to inspect the wiring, but can't do this until the ceilings are

         ripped out.

   

  RESPONSE TO ROOFER:

   

  1st paragraph - I did not hire this structural engineer, my homeowners insurance company did.

   

     "bubbling paint"- I have water stains, cracks, in every room of my house including the closets. Plus the

      damage continues, it has not stopped. The roofing company owner took pictures of the damage and

     I have taken pictures also through these past 3 1/2 years also sent to the insurance company. It would be nice

     if all I had was some "bubbling paint" in one area of my bathroom.

   

  2nd paragraph - *Insulation Issue" (mentioned earlier that I would come back to this issue)

     I got up on the roof several times during installation. I was up there after the old roof had been ripped off.

    I assumed the pink insulation was old, as I had determined my roof was at least 25 years old. I asked the

     owner that while the roof was off should I have someone install "new insulation"? The owner told me, no

     what was there would work just fine.*

   

    *Now this seems to be the "current reason" the roof won't ventilate, the pink insulation.

     

     Why didn't the owner tell me this when I was on the roof and asking if the insulation needed replacing?

    

     Why didn't he say, "you really need to not have any insulation because it won't allow the roof to

     adequately ventilate" ?

   

  3rd paragraph - "Bathroom with bubbling paint" - I took the owner throughout my entire house 10-12 rooms

    and showed "new" water damage in each area since roof had been installed and continues to this day

     3 1/2 years later.

   

    Again in this paragraph the owner mentions "pink insulation" not allowing air flow"

    

    Why is he now making an issue of this and blaming the damage on the insulation? Why didn't he tell me

    this and then remove it so the air could flow while the old roof was off, when I asked the question while

     I was standing on the roof looking at it?

   

    This response by the owner to the BBB is the first time I've heard this reason for the roof issue. 

   

  Why didn't his company remove the insulation during roof installation if they knew it would cause my roof not to have any ventilation?

     

  Why didn't he suggest removing it after i started and continue to have issues inside my house?

     

  Why now, that I have filed a complaint is the "pink insulation" given as a reason?

   

  I will repeat, at no time, even when I was up on the roof and looking at the "pink insulation", was i told by this

  company that my roof would not ventilate with insulation in it.I was also concerned about them removing my

  passive roof vent which also vented my carport and replacing it with the  whirlybirds. I was assured by the owner

  the whirlybirds would vent my roof better than the passive vent.

   

  I've been given 3 reasons at different times why these issues are occurring:

    1) the sheeting boards sit on the rafters so the air can't flow.

    2) roofs don't need to really be vented. He's done lots of roofs that had no ventilation and they

        work just fine.

    3) And now, the pink insulation....which if that is really the issue, why didn't his company remove it when

         the roof was open. If he truly believes this, then what the company did is unprofessional and unethical.

   

  I went on his facebook page and on one post he goes on and on about how important properly vented

    roofs are. Why didn't I get a properly vented roof? I know companies have to have insurance for issues

  that come up. His insurance should pay for my damages and to fix these things.

   

  What do I want?

   1) I would like the structural engineer to do a test to see if the roof is venting anywhere.

      * my homeowners company will not pay for this.

   2) Put back the passive vent or vent the roof the way the structural engineer suggests after the venting test

        is done.

   3) Fix any damage done by this improperly vented roof

   

  *****  **** **** ** **** *** **** * ***** **** *** *** ** **** *** ********* * **** **** ******* **** *** ****    * *** ***** *** *** ******** **** ******** ** ******** ** ********** ******* **** *** *** *** ******    ****** ** ***** *** ******* ** *** *** ******** *** ** *** *** ***** ******* *** *** *******

   

    1) All the ceilings in my home have to be removed, including the carport ceiling. Which means I have to

        "pack up my entire house" and move out while this is done and then "move back in and unpack".

     2) the electrical wiring will probably all have to be replaced from moisture, etc.

     3)Who knows what will be found when ceiling is removed. Mold? I know the sheeting boards are wet because

          the rafters are wet and causing "shadows" across my ceilings inside.

     4) No one knows how long I will be out of my house while all this is being done.

     5) I am grateful the insurance company is doing what they are, but they didn't cause this and I feel they

         shouldn't have to pay for someone else's mistake.

     6) All my clothing and shoes are "mildewed". The shoes are not much of a problem for 95% of the population,

          but I wear a size 4 and order my shoes from companies that specialize in this. I've had most of my shoes

          for decades because at over $100/pair, I took good care of them, very hard to find. I don't know if my

          shoes can be fixed.

     7) I suffer from severe bouts of depression. I was doing ok until this issue hit and I feel helpless and hopeless.

         I don't have the energy to pack everything up and move out. Where will I go? Where will I stay with my dog?

     8) Why can't this owner just be professional and fix the problem? Even with an old and leaky roof, I didn't

           have any of these issues before. No cracks, no "shadows", lights were working just fine, etc.

   

  It has taken me over a week to be able to write these things out and type this up. It has been very anxiety

  producing and energy sapping. I have to lay down after I work on this. I paid over $15,000.00 for this nightmare.

  I no longer feel safe or secure or can relax in this house. And I have no where else to go to for these things.

   

  If you need anything else from me, let me know. I appreciate your patience.

  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** *****

  

  Business response

  04/21/2023

  *** ***** contacted us regarding her leaking roof. We discovered she had shingles installed on a low pitch roof (her roof is 1/12 pitch, whereas shingles are not warrantied below 2/12). We recommended she install modified bitumen, which is designed for low pitch roofs. We installed the modified bitumen roof and the leaking was stopped. The roof was inspected by a third-party inspector and he agreed there are no problems with the roof.
  
  *** *****, however, is distressed over condensation problems inside her home that have arisen since the roof was installed. Before, her roof had shingles, and although they were the reason her roof was leaking, they allowed water vapor to waft out to some degree. So condensation was not much of an issue. With the modified bitumen roof, the material is designed to not let water in at very shallow pitches, so it also does not let water vapor escape.
  
  Normally, this problem would be solved by installation of ventilation systems. Unfortunately, *** *****’s home has a cathedral ceiling, which means there is about a 4 inch gap between the ceiling and the roof decking. And in this case, the gap is filled with insulation. Because of this, ventilation systems, which require a channel for air to draw, do not function. It does not matter how many vents are installed, or what kind, even power vents. If air is not allow to flow from the lower reaches of the roof (near the eaves) and up to the vents, there is no ventilation.
  
  One cannot solve the problem by simply removing insulation from the gap between the ceiling and roof decking. This would allow air to ventilate, but it would also make house too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter.
  
  *** ***** is blaming her roof installer for a design flaw in the structure of her home. She could, in theory, return to shingles. That would allow condensation to escape better. But she would be back where she started from with a leaky roof.

  Customer response

  05/30/2023

  [A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of Mediation. If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]

  Better Business Bureau:

  In reference to complaint ID *********, , I agree to participate in BBB Mediation.

  Regards,

  ***** *****

  

  Business response

  06/06/2023

  [A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of Mediation. If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]

  Better Business Bureau:

  In reference to complaint ID .********, my company is willing to participate in BBB Mediation.

  Thank you.

  Customer response

  06/23/2023

  [A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of Mediation. If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]

  Better Business Bureau:

  In reference to complaint ID .********, , I agree to participate in BBB Mediation.

  Regards,

  ***** *****

  

  Business response

  06/23/2023

  [A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of Mediation. If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]

  Better Business Bureau:

  In reference to complaint ID .********, my company is willing to participate in BBB Mediation.

  Thank you.

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩