ComplaintsforB & W Plumbing & Heating Co., Inc.

• Initial Complaint

  02/23/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  We had previously used B&W Plumbing in our home to provide plumbing services. As such, I hired them to replace 2 toilets at my daughter's home. I requested that they work directly with my daughter to select the toilets and arrange installation. I directly asked the service provider, ***************************** if there would be a markup on the toilets, and he indicated that it would be a pass-through cost. My daughter selected two Kohler K78080 toilets. The **** for these through ****** and ******** (whom they purchased through) is $695.93. However, when I received the invoice from B&W, it was $4747.39. I had to call, text and email 5 times before they would give me the breakdown of the cost for the invoice. It turns out they charged $1,397.69 per toilet, over two times the price of the toilet. When I called to confront them, I spoke to the Operations Manager, *************************. In our first conversation, he told me that they were not in the business of taking advantage of their customers and that he would get back to me after speaking to his plumber. Days went by, and no reply. I had to email him twice before he replied to tell me once again that he would get back to me. After 5 more days, I called him directly, and he told me that he stood behind their over 100% markup of the supplies. They also charged $990 to install two one-piece toilets, in addition to overcharging for additional supplies. He also claimed that it was more expensive to install a one-piece toilet stating it was harder to install. I am a wealthy older gentleman, and it is very clear that he they took extreme advantage of my ability to pay. Every interaction with the company, after the completion of service was very dubious in nature, and they always seemed to give as little information as possible.

  

  Business response

  02/24/2023

  On December 9th, we received a call from *************************** stating that she is the assistant to *************************** and she stated that ***** wanted to provide his daughter with 2 new toilets for his daughters home. They selected us because performed work at his home though ************** since we are the only **************************************** in Central *******.  After gathering all of the contact information from ******************, our CSR asked her if she wanted us to call her with what was going on and the price.  ****************** replied yes but pricing is whatever it is, he just wants it done.
  
  Our plumber *************************** contacted his daughter giving options and recommendations.  The existing toilets were both broken at the tank.  A couple of the recommendations were one-piece toilets, due to their strength by design. The daughter then decided on a couple skirted one piece toilets.  The daughter requested that we include one bidet seat as well.  Our plumber called ****************** to inform her that the daughter wanted to add a bidet seat and she approved.  There was no discussion of price just an approval.
  
  *************************** is a Senior Plumber and has worked with us for over 24 years. We have never passed though costs on material we have provided.  This was never mentioned or discussed.  Im not familiar of any plumbing company that only charges the customer wholesale pricing.  We mark up our material to cover the costs of vehicles, employee benefits, business insurance, cost of business etc.  We use a standard markup to cover these just like every other retail business.  This doesnt change regardless of someones definition of wealth.
  
  We had to order the toilets and the bidet seat from our supplier and the material wouldnt be received until the middle of January.   We went out on January 19th to remove the 2 broken toilets and install the 2 one piece toilet and bidet seat the daughter requested.  When the job was complete, our plumber called ****************** to collect payment via credit card.  He gave her the total, she gave him the credit card information, and he processed the transaction.  There was no issue about the amount of the job at that time.  Her only request was to make sure the invoice was sent to ******************** email, which she monitors, and not the daughters email.
  
  We also sent out electrician out that day to run a new wire and install an outlet for the bidet seat to operate.  This invoice from *************** uses the same markup formula as our other, but this was not an issue with the customer and still isnt.  
  
  Two weeks go by and ****************** contacts us wanting to know the breakdown of material and etc.  We quote job total pricing.  I gave her the breakdown she requested.  After that, she had gone online price shopping after the toilets were installed.  She stated that we were overcharging her.  I told her were not in the business of taking advantage of customer and that we are not the cheapest ******************** service provider.   In the interest of customer service, I offered her a refund/adjustment to the list price of $927.90 plus tax advertised by *************  She then stated that our Senior ******* said that we pass though material costs and only wanted to pay the wholesale price.  I told her that Im sure that he did not say that and I would get back to her on that after discussing with him. I spoke with ******* **** and he confirmed that there was never a discussion that we passed through material costs.  When ****** called back I told her that **** never mentioned the pass through costs. She then asked if I stood behind our markup and I said yes.  She asked for my last name and said that she would be using that information accordingly.
  
  The complaint also said we overcharged for installation and supplies.  The Kohler website that ****************** cites also lists available installation service for this toilet at $399.00 each.  We installed both toilets and a bidet seat for $990.00 which is not unreasonable if you want to use Kohler website standards.  Also looking up pricing online doesnt give anyone the whole cost.  You have to follow through to see availability, shipping/freight and taxes.
  
  Lastly, this complaint was written in first person as if all discussions were with ****************************  This is incredibly misleading as nowhere in the complaint mentions anyone speaking or representing him on his behalf.  We have never been in contact with *************************** and have never talked to or have met him.  We do not know that he is an older gentleman or the amount of his wealth.  To say that we took extreme advantage of his ability to pay is a false accusation. 
  
   We have been in business since 1961.  We have an A+ rating with the BBB with Zero Complaints and accredited with the BBB since ****.

  Customer response

  02/27/2023

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  First and foremost, as for the letter being written in first person, I work directly with ******************** on all matters including this one, and am often asked to write in first person on his account. I was not trying in any way to be deceitful, but rather conducting business as I also do for ********************, as his personal assistant.

  As for the matter at hand, there was no point in which ***** offered to adjust the price paid. When we talked, I had told him the price listed on the Kohler and ******** websites for the toilet, however he was unsure what price they had paid for the toilets. He had told me that he would look into it and let me know. However, as I indicated in my previous complaint to BBB, he never got back to me with answers, it was instead I (***************************) who had to track him down to obtain answers. Had B&W initially charged the list price provided by ******, of $927.90 (33% markup), that would have been a logical price markup, however they opted to be greedy and charge $1,397.69 (*****% markup). I cannot see how in any service industry this would not be perceived as price gouging and/or taking advantage of clients. I cannot fathom that this is B&W's standard markup on materials, as they would not longer be in business. 

  Mr. ***** indicates in his response to the complaint that he had no idea of the wealth of ********************, however that is not in fact the case, because as he had stated in the beginning of his response, B&W (plumber ****) had previously performed work at ******************** home. While it is correct that I stated "pricing is whatever it is, he just wants it done," I would have never in my wildest dreams have imaged that the charges would be so exorbitant.  Furthermore, while I did not contest the charges at the time that the plumber called me, when work was completed, I honestly was in the middle of something else, and quite frankly was in shock by the total. I also thought that perhaps I was missing something, since the charges were so high, and did ask that **** the plumber email me a copy of the invoice so that I could review it in further detail. I did specifically ask that he email it directly to me, via ******************** email account and not the other named individual on the account (I never mentioned his daughter as stated in Mr. ******* response), he did not in fact email it to ********************, but did in fact email it to the other individual on the account.  This was not supposed to be done, and quite frankly having done so was a great a contributor to why ******************** and I were motivated to look into the breakdown of the costs more closely. Had they done what was asked, and emailed it to ********************, there is actually the chance that we might not have thought to dig deeper into the pricing. 

  As for the invoice from the electrician that Mr. ***** brought up in his letter, perhaps we should be investigating it more closely, as it did seem quite high for the cost of installing a GFCI outlet. However at this time, we will simply focus on the matter at hand, which is the plumbing invoice. 

  
  Regards,
  
  ***************************, on behalf of ***************************

  
  

  

  Business response

  03/04/2023

  Here is a scenario.  I take my daughter to a nice restaurant for Christmas.  The waiter offers us menus, but I refuse the menus stating let my daughter pick out what she wants.  The waiter makes several recommendations and she selects the surf and turf.  Everything was to our liking.   When the dinner is over, I pay the bill.

  
  Two weeks later, my wife sees my banking statement and wants to know why the dinner was so expensive.  I go online to research what grocers, butchers and food service companies price their meat.  I cannot believe the other prices are less that what I was charged.  I check the menus at other restaurants and see that they charge considerably less.  I call the restaurant asking what they paid for the food, how much of the bill was the labor to cook the food, accusing them of overcharging us.

  
  Im sure this restaurant didnt raise my price because I didnt ask for the menu.  They have pricing structure and business model they have used for a long time.

  
  We stand by our pricing and this is the price quoted to everyone.  We feel we did nothing wrong.  But in the interest of coming to a resolution, we are offering a refund to the list price for each toilet with tax ($992.83) which is a total refund of $809.72. 
  

  
  

  Customer response

  03/10/2023

  Better Business Bureau:

  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this response/resolution is satisfactory to me. In the interest of a resolution, I will accept the $809.72 refund from B&W.
  
  

  Regards,

  ***************************

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩