ComplaintsforHands You Demand

• Initial Complaint

  04/19/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Customer: ******************************* Property Assessment Date: 12/15/2021 Project start date: 12/20/2021 Quoted Amount for Job: $4,279.99 Deposit: $3,070.50, 72% of total due Status as of today: 4/10/2022 Incomplete/Unsatisfactory My Request:*** projected schedule timeline oDemo and installation projected to last 2 days oPainting 2-3 weeks to dry and they would come back to paint in off white paint I am therefore disputing the charges minus $250 for demolition of old railings. Requesting a refund of $2,820.50. I have since found another company to do the work Reference:Project Manager PM/Tee Director and Managing Partner - **** Olly *** Hands You Demand Purpose: Complaint against Hands You Demand for Inferior and Incomplete work rendered

  

  Business response

  05/02/2022

  
  Date: April 29th, 2022
  
  To: Better Business Bureau
  
  Re: Complaint #********
  
  Consumer: *******************************
  
  Consumer Address: **********************************************************************************, 30083
  
  Company: Hands You Demand **** ********************************************************* 30096
  
  
  Dear Better Business Bureau,
  
  Response to Complaint #********, ******************************* & Hands You Demand
  
  Thank you for your email regarding the above complaint, received 04/19/22, and the opportunity to respond to the concerns raised. We apologize for the delayed response. It is peak season for our business, alongside absences; however, the main cause of delay is due to the amount of effort required to gather the information and evidence for this response which we hope you will understand.
  
  As stated in your email, there are 2-sides to every dispute and ours are outlined below including evidence in email, SMS and phone calls which are referenced in the correspondence and attached. For ease, we have outlined events in date sequence and prefixed relevant communication exchanged with the consumer by MCP Emailfor emails, MCP SMS for text messaging and MCP Call for phone calls.
  
  Project Background
  6th Dec 2021
  The consumer (*********************) contacted our company (Hands You Demand) for an estimate appointment for her front railing and front door trim repair. The appointment was scheduled for December 10th 2021 and assigned to one of our Estimator/Project Managers - Tee.
  10th Dec 2021
  The Estimator visited the property and discussed the project with ********************* including options for the wood replacements - including Oak and Cedar. ********************* mentioned that she did not want anything expensive, so the estimator discussed the characteristics of lower cost wood options such as Pine pressure treated wood and advised ********************* to look up more information about them online to aid her decision making. The appointment went well and before photos taken on the day of the appointment are included in Exhibit A Photos. ********************* decided to go with the low-cost wood option pressure treated pine wood. Few days after the appointment, a quote was shared with her totalling $6,140.99; stating her wood choice (see highlighted yellow text in ******************* the copy of work order and contract). ********************* also negotiated for painting (worth $975) to be included in the quote, which was agreed and thrown in as an incentive at no additional cost to her. She accepted the quote on December 16th 2021, signed the contract and paid the required 50% deposit of $3,070.50.
  
  Project Commencement
  
  Dec 20th 2021
  
  Ms ********** project was assigned to one of our best *************** who has several years of experience working on similar and larger projects. The project commenced on the morning of 20th December with the aim to complete before Christmas or shortly afterwards. The crew started work by offloading the new wood materials which had been purchased from *********** the same place that we have used to purchase wood for similar projects. Within a few hours of work commencement, ********************* contacted Tee to complain about the business model (which uses a blend of staff and contractors), but her main concern was that the wood the crew were installing which was purchased from ********** had knots in them, so she didnt want them - see communication exchanged in Exhibit C MCP SMS 1 to 4. Tee explained that it would be difficult to obtain knotless pressure treated pine wood for her wood choice and the quantity required for her work order. ********************* insisted that the wood needed to be knotless, so the crew uninstalled the railing that was already completed and returned the unused wood to ********** ********************* was not charged for the used wood,however this cost the company time, cost and efforts. The crew then went to ********************* as customer suggested to hand select knotless pine pressure wood which took significant effort to find, some of which still have knots - it is almost impossible to find completely knotless wood for the number of ***** required for the project. This started to add to the timeline of the project which was meant to take less than five days to complete.
  
  The crew started working again following the purchase and Ms ********** ok to proceed and after the removal and installation of the railing, ********************* asked the crew to stop working again with immediate effect until Tee had been to her property to inspect the work - this time she asked them to leave. She complained that some of the wood used still had knots in them and that the gaps below the railing were not code compliant. She also asked the crew not to progress with her second work line item - to repair the rots on her front door and paint. Unfortunately, Tee was off sick due to COVID so I personally reached out to ********************* via phone call and offered to send a substitute for Tee to discuss the issue. ********************* declined the offer and insisted she only wanted to speak with Tee regarding the project. I further explained that it may take longer for Tee to return due to his situation but again she insisted that she would wait until whenever he returned, so the project was put on hold until Tees return to the office.
  
  Jan 10th 2022
  
  Upon Tees return, he visited ********************** on Jan 10th to check and assess the work that had been undertaken. He measured and found that the gap that ********************* had complained about was compliant with building standards. He also found that there were very minor knots in a small number of the *****, which would not have impacted the end product - knots on ***** cannot be controlled. These were explained to ********************* and initially she seemed content, however, she still requested that we remove and replace the knotted *****. She also maintained that we dont progress with the door trim repair as per the contract, therefore we agreed we would make an adjustment to her invoice to exclude the second line item. She was unhappy with the first crew so Tee agreed that well send another crew member to complete the job since the railing had been fully installed and the bulk of remaining work is painting and minor repairs to the railings with knots. ********************* was also offered a compensation of $500 discount off her final invoice due to issues experienced when re-working the already good work,when trying to satisfy the customer. There were several email exchanges with ********************* during this time which is included as Exhibit D MCP Email 1 to 14.
  
  It is worth noting that during Tees visit, ********************* raised and discussed the option to change the wood used to a different type. Tee explained that this would be considered a change due to rework and therefore attract additional cost this was for the removal of already installed railing and additional cost for the different wood type she was asking for (different to what was agreed as per contract). The customer declined to proceed on the basis that she did not want to pay anything extra. Text message exchanges between the customer and Tee are also shown in ********* MCP SMS 5 to 6.
  Unfortunately,from this point, the weather took a downturn with cold temperature so we could not schedule another job visit until the weather improved due to the job being outside and painting.
  
  Jan 24th & 27th 2022
  
  As soon as the weather improved, another Technician (******) visited ********************* to repair and replace the balusters, and start painting. Most of the repairs were done on the 24th and painting commenced on the 27th. The technician took a chip of the existing paint to ********** which they matched for us (She wanted Off-white), the paint is being done free without charges to the client as a goodwill gesture - this was also stated in the contract.  Upon completion of the prime and first quote,********************* again asked the new crew member to stop painting. She said the paint being used was not matching her existing window paints which were off white. The technician explained that the paint on her window is almost 2 decades old and therefore would not be the exact color of the new paint until there's been some wear. She was furious and asked the new technician to leave again. She contacted Tee via SMS on the same day regarding the issue and Tee called her back multiple times but the call was not answered. Tee then sent an SMS that he would be at the job site the next morning to assess and discuss the issue. See text message exchange in EXHIBIT F MCP SMS 6 10.  
  
  Jan 28th 2022
  Tee visited the site despite being off work to discuss the issues. He fed back that the customer was very furious and felt insulted because he had to be socially distanced for the discussion; She spoke at the top of her voice and walked out on him before they could discuss resolution. She then sent another SMS to Tee regarding the visit which Tee explained his position see Exhibit G MCP SMS 10 & 11. Tee escalated the issue to me and I called ********************* immediately following Tees visit but there was no answer,I then followed up with an email asking for a suitable time to call her back.
  
  Later that evening, ********************* emailed our office to complain about the work that ****** had undertaken and her version of the incident during Tees visit, including several pictures. See copy of email in Exhibit H MCP Email 15.The email was brought to my attention and I started to investigate immediately.I established the following:
  ?Regarding ****** - It appeared there was an error with the paint matching at ********** which ********** accepted responsibility for. Although ****** being a professional painter should have also picked this error up sooner but failed to. I accepted responsibility for that and was determined to put it right.
  
  ?Regarding Tee - he visited ********************* with the hope to try and resolve the issue with painting, despite being off work ill (he should not have attended). However, because of our experience with ********************* previously he decided to go but had to maintain social distance for the conversation (which was done in the best interest of ********************* for safety), but she was not happy with it. This prompted ************************* long email in ***************** note, contrary to Ms ********** claim, our staff are trained to always be respectful to customers and maintain professionalism at all times. It is also worth noting that we would never attempt to defame ********************* as claimed in her email but simply suggested that if she had financial difficulty, we could work with her to achieve her goal, because it was obvious at this point that ********************** was trying so hard to stop the project from progressing.
  
  Again, I reached out to ********************* to apologise and assured her that everything will be put right. Initially, she requested that we send a third crew but after some minutes of conversing she agreed that we send the same technician back with Tee. She said she would prefer not to have any dealings with the crew so I asked her to contact me directly if there are any issues. Following the phone call, I set out the agreed position and next steps in an email to her. See copy of my email to ********************* Exhibit H MCP Email 16. Due to the decline in weather, we were unable to schedule a visit until Feb 8th.
  
  Feb 8th 2022
  
  ****** and Tee visited on Feb 8th. Tee showed ****** everything that needed to be done before leaving. ****** commenced work immediately on the same day and the work was scheduled across 3 visits. Work went well on this day. It is worth noting that, during the visit, Tee met a friend/relative of ********************* who queried ********************* about her preferred choice of wood. In his words ******,but why didn't you choose a different material like composite vinyl material that won't split or does not have any knots, you know that pressure treated appear rough, wood does have knots and do split due to weathering, but it was obviously going to be change order at that point.
  
  Feb 9th 2022
  ****** went for the second visit to continue with the job. At the end of the day, ********************* emailed again that one of the railings that ****** had tried to repair was not straight, she included a photo. I could see from the photo she sent that the railing did not look accurate. I reached out to the technician immediately but he was unavailable. So, I reached out to ********************* via a phone call and said we had 2 options at that point, either we get another technician to correct the bent railing or we refund her fully for the project.I said I would need to think about it overnight and would get back to her the next day. This was because I needed to speak with the technician to figure out what went wrong to help us ascertain the course of direction. ********************* agreed that I get back to her the next day our phone conversation is included as Exhibit I MCP Telephone 1.
  
  Feb 10th 2022
  I finally got hold of the technician after speaking with ********************* and he explained that that work on the railing was not completed, there was still some work to be done around the brick areas which would have stabilised the railing.This part of work required a technician with bricklaying expertise also. Please see before picture to see the existing state of the brick by the stairs before the work commenced showing cracked brick. We did this repair for the customer at no charge as part of the job. Looking at the before picture, you can see knots, bolts holes in her existing handrail.
  
  As part of my investigation, I also established that over 80% of the project was already completed and remaining work were just minor fixes and painting.So, as promised I reached out again to ********************* the next day and explained that we needed to get someone with more expertise than ****** over there so they could address the brick issue, as well as the railing and painting. She agreed that we send the new technician and requested to have direct interaction with them phone conversation is included as ********* MCP Telephone 2.
  Feb 11th 2022
  The work was assigned to a new technician (******) who was pulled off another project and visited ********************* on this day. I had planned to reach back out to ********************* on the same day but unfortunately, I had a family emergency so needed to be off work that Friday, however, I asked the crew (****** and Tee)to give feedback on next steps directly to ********************* in my absence and I would follow up with her on Monday as we are not open for business on weekend.They confirmed they assessed the project and discussed actions to remedy the work with *********************. They advised they would be back the following Monday Feb 14th to fix the brick (which was cracked before we commenced the project, but we were going to fix as it is needed to install the new railing)then wait for it to dry before completing the railing and painting. ********************* seemed ok with it.
  
  Feb 12th 2022
  Surprisingly,********************* emailed again on Saturday morning changing the course of direction that had been agreed, she was now requesting for a full refund a copy of her email is included as ********* MCP Email 17.
  
  Feb 12th 2022
  I responded when I got back to the office on Monday 14th. Following this, there were a few email exchanges with ********************* which are set out in *************** 17 25. I tried to call ********************* but there was no response. I tried again and finally got through after a few rings, but she said she had to go and could talk at *****pm then hung up the call before I could respond phone log in *************** Log 3. I was going to let her know I could be on other calls but I will call her back at my earliest availability. I also followed up with an email.
  
  I called her back shortly after *****pm, and we had a very long conversation where she made it known that she would be disputing the payment with her credit card company. She offered to pay only $250 for the railing demolition and said she would not be paying for any material used, disposal fees nor the labor that had been put into the work so far. I listened patiently and tried to offer a reasonable resolution but she got very frantic on the call and would not let me speak, she consistently interjected me and spoke at the top of her voice. The call went on for a long time and during the discussion ********************* confirmed and admitted that the only resolution that would work for her is to replace the wood type without any cost liability to her *************** Log 4 (near mid-end of the call). Usually, we would consider this a change of scope mid-project and the change would be chargeable,but I went as far offering her the option to do the labor for free if she can get the new material but she insisted that she would only be willing to pay $250.
  
  Our company is reputable and we have delivered several projects even much larger than the scale of Ms. ********** without any issues - this can be confirmed by the testimonies from our clients on all our business profiles on Yelp, Google,and BBB inclusive. However, it has been a completely unpleasant experience with ********************* from the start. In my opinion, I think that ********************* wished she had used a different wood material for her project and is now looking for an opportunity to achieve this without taking responsibility for any cost. 
  
  I subsequently exchanged a few emails with ********************* shown in ************* Email 26 - 30, confirming our position, until this correspondence arrived. I am assuming that ********************* has not been able to make a claim successfully from her credit card company as she hoped for.
  
  As I hope you would see from this statement and associated evidences that it has been a difficult situation with ********************* and I believe we have been very considerate with this consumer. Requesting for a full refund at this late stage of the project is very inconsiderate and will put our business in complete loss. We have been very generous with ********************* already with the incentives and discounts that we have offered her. Anything more beyond this will be a complete loss to our business which is small but growing. Also, to note, the only payment received to date from the consumer is the deposit for the project from Dec 2021; the projects balance of $1015.02 (excluding the work outstanding and issues), is yet to be cleared by the customer as it is still an outstanding invoice.
  
  I believe we have tried everything we could within our business capacity to resolve this consumers concerns, however, I believe this consumer has a different motive,which would be unreasonable to support.
  
  Again,apologies for the delayed response. Gathering evidences required a significant effort to achieve.
  
  If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** Olly
  Director and Managing Partner, Hands You Demand
  Email: ***********************************
  Telephone: ************

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩