ComplaintsforNo Hassle Fence Co.

• Initial Complaint

  08/02/2021

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Contracted 4/20/20, with no information on start date for over a month! Email with 24 hours notice that they were coming to set up the fence the next day and had to scramble to get a hold of neighbors who have dogs and let them know. Poor communication should have been the first warning. Signed contract for fencing with top cap and gate, measured by Todd. They started construction and hit the sprinkler line. Came home to find my basement window flooded. Not even an apology for what occurred, just aggressive language about how they "were not liable." What was actually build was a top cap that only halfway covered the posts and looks unfinished. Multiple workmanship issues (damage to my personal fence and concrete) and poor workmanship of the built fence. Multiple emails, texts, and phone calls (just like the other reviews) to Todd, with no reply since 6/20. I was invoiced for non contracted additional ft of fencing! Check cashed, but still waiting for the settled invoice.

  

  Business response

  08/09/2021

  
            
  First and foremost Ms. ******** complains we have poor communication. However, between the time we gave her an estimate and the time we invoiced her we have around 50 emails back and forth. And since her invoiced was sent on 6/22/21 we have 6 more emails responding to her request. We have answered all her questions more than once and have done so by email.
  From the very first interaction with Ms. ******** she was asking for this discount and that discount and then trying to use other no named so called fence contractors low bids in an effort to get us to lower our price. Then when that didn’t work Ms. ******** started cutting corners on her original fence project in an effort to save a dollar here and there. This should have been our first indicator that Ms. ******** was going to be a difficult customer from start to finish.
  We received Ms. ******** signed contract and deposit on April 26th. At that time, we were booking out around 3-4 weeks weather permitting. As you might recall this past May was the rainiest May in Colorado history. So much so, that we had twice as much rain in the first 12 days of May than all of 2020 combined. Between May 1st and June 10th we were forced to stay closed due to weather more days than we were actually open and these weather delays were communicated numerous times via email and phone calls to Ms. ********. We finally started getting some good weather day by the 2nd week of June and within 2 weeks we were able to get caught up and we started Ms. ********’s project.
  On day one within the first few hours of our crew working Ms. ******** was trying get our crew to do free work by asking them to pull weeds and clear out brush that had been neglected by Ms. ******** for a very long time. Our crew refused and continued working to remove the existing fence and installed the new fence post exactly where Ms. ******** requested her new fence be installed. During the installation of the posts some sort of unknown buried "private" line was puncture underground in one of the new post holes. Since this was a "private" line and cannot and is not located(marked) by the required 811 locates that we are required by law to call in there is no way for anyone to know a line was unless water flows out of the line filling up the post hole prior to the post being set in concrete. We did not know a line was hit until Ms. ******** called us and told us later that night or the next day. The hole was dry and free of water when our crew set that post in concrete(otherwise they wouldn’t have been able to set that posts that day). So, there was no need for anyone to say they were sorry to Ms. ******** for damaging a line because Ms. ******** is the one who told us where she wanted her new fence installed. This is why it clearly states in the contract that she signed that we are NOT responsible for underground private lines. This also goes in line with her complaint about damaged concrete. In part of her back yard her concrete slab/patio went all the way up against the old fence that had been there since the 1930’s and in order to remove the 12" diameter 2 feet deep buried concrete and old post our crew had to crack a small area of concrete slab to get this post out. Ms ******** also claims we charged her for work she didn't approve. This is also not true. In the contract she signed she is giving us approval to charge for any additional work such as jack hammering or hand digging due to unknown underground concrete or utilities. And although we did do about $200 worth of additional work and we are contractually able to charge for it we did NOT charge her for any addition work.
  Moving on to after the post were set and while the concrete was curing for the recommended 2-4 days: She contacted us to inform us that a few posts were either not straight or in the wrong location. Being that our lead crew post setter who has been with us for 10 years ran this project and himself along with 3 other crew members have over 25 years’ worth of post setting experience we found it highly unlikely that any posts were in the wrong location but Ms. ******** insisted we make a special trip out to her house to inspect our 25 year seasoned employees work. Upon arriving at her house and seeing the fence line we were able to confirm that she was incorrect, and all the posts were exactly in line with where they were supposed to be and in the correct location where she requested the new fence to be built. 
  A few days after the post were set a crew arrived to build the fence and within the first hour we got a call from our lead builder that Ms. ******** was onsite micro-managing the project telling our very seasoned and professional fence builders which lumber they should install where and demanding that they remove lumber they had already cut to size and installed. Thus, making is useless trash. Then an hour or so later, long before the fence was even close to being finished, she called us again to complain the fence wasn't straight and it was bowed/sagging etc. At that time, we informed Ms. ******** that our crew was very experienced and knew what they were doing and to let them do the job she hired us to do. We informed her that our company and these crew members have built this style of fence thousands of times over the past 20 years and they we perfectly capable of doing this project correctly without her supervision. Ms. ******** then proceeded to tell us that she knows how a fence is supposed to be built and we didn't know what we were doing. At this point this was now the 3rd or 4th time she had interrupted the work and either questioned what we were doing or flat out told us we didn't know what we were doing. I asked her to please stop micro-managing the job she hired us to do and to let our crew do the job they are highly skilled at and very capable of doing without her supervision. Even after this conversation with her she continued to disturb and disrupt our crew for the duration of the project.
  Her 1st complaint: the space in alley fence between the old fence and new fence and top cap not reaching across. The original proposal was to remove the old alley fence and build new top cap style fence but in Ms. ******** effort to save a buck she decided she wanted us to build her new top cap style fence on the old dog eared style fence. I explained to her that this would make the fence very thick and that the top cap would not cover the old fence and that we would have to cut all the tops of the old pickets off so she wouldn’t see them sticking up above the new top cap. I also, informed her that since we had to do this big cut on an already existing fence that the cut wouldn't be a perfect cut and asked her if she wanted to “finish” that side of the fence with fascia or anything. Her reply was and I quote " no, that's fine, I don't care what the back side looks like since it’s on the backside of the alley and I don’t see from my yard". After the fence was completed, this was the very first thing she complained about. She then contacted us numerous times trying to get us to come back and add a 2nd top cap, fascia etc for free. We said we were not doing any additional work for free.
  
  Her 2nd complaint: That the top cap doesn't cover the entire top of the post to the back side of the posts. The style of top cap she contracted for is a single side top cap fence that only allows coverage of the 2x6 top cap on the finished side of the fence(her side). This is how a standard/basic top cap fence is built. There are other higher end, more expensive top caps that look "finished" on both sides but they are constructed completely different than the style top cap Ms. ******** contracted for and thus they cost more money.          *if you need to see examples of her style of top cap fence where the top cap doesn't cover to the backside of the fence I can easily drive around the neighborhood and take picture of this style top cap fence built by many other fence companies that look exactly like the style top cap we built for her.
  3rd complaint: Ms. ******** then sent us a couple of pictures where the facia butts up to one another showing that the 2 fascia boards are off in size(width or thickness) by a millimeter or two. She also sent a picture of a very small gap where the 2x6 top cap joins together. We explained to her that this is exterior rough saw cedar used for fences and it is not milled to precise to the millimeter specifications for a flawless perfect fit like you would get with hardwood floors or high end cabinetry that go inside your house. This is a fence that requires exterior fence grade cedar lumber. Furthermore, since all cedar comes from the humid and damp northwest US(Washington, Oregon, Canada)and is full of water/moisture as soon as we open the packaging and cut the bands off the unit of lumber it begins to shrink in our dry and hot climate within hours and days. A brand new fence built today with no daylight between the 3.5" picket will end up with a 1/8" to more than a 1/4" gap between the pickets within just a few days or weeks. So, complaining that there is a millimeter space between 2 individual pieces of cedar on your fence that is sitting out in the 95 degree dry Colorado heat is pointless because over the first few days and weeks of a fence being built every board on that fence is going to start to dry out, shrink and possibly twist, warp or maybe even start to get small cracks in it so most, if not all of the joint seems of fences will have small gaps or discrepancy within days of being built. That's the nature of a "NATURAL" NON man made product that is exposed to extreme temperature fluctuations like we regularly have here in Colorado.
  
  Ms. ******** claims we have poor communication and don't respond to her numerous calls etc. This is not the case. As mentioned in the beginning of this email. We have almost 30 emails with her from estimate to project completion. When then have 6 more emails with her over her complaints and invoice. Due to the difficulty of working with her we informed her weeks ago that we would only communicate with her via email so that we could keep records of said communications. We have since stop responding to her emails because we have already responded to the same questions multiple times. 
  In short: Ms. ******** tried to get discounts and free work from start to finish and then questioned and criticized our experience and our crews every step of the way. She still has an outstanding balance of $110 that is now over 30 days past due and subject to late fees of $50 a month and interest. Yet, she continues to contact us trying to get us to send workers back to her house to more additional work for free.
  
  Regards,
  Todd NHF

  Customer response

  08/10/2021

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  1)Todd's company indicates they beat any other price, hence why another bid was submitted (at Todd's request) for review.  Instead of ripping down a perfectly good fence that just didn't match the style of the rest, I decided not to rip down a non-matching portion of the fence and instead line the inside with pickets to match the rest of the fence, especially since nobody would face posts to the alley due to ability to climb the post from the alley.  This is not an uncommon practice.  

  2) There were no weeds or brush at my home that Todd's crew had to remove.  The yard is maintained weekly and I don't have the slightest clue what Todd is referencing.

  3) There's not much choice in where a fence gets installed.  It get's installed on the property line.  Todd's assertion that he built the fence where I asked is unusual, especially since with his experience he should be aware that there's not much selection in where to build a fence.  He did hit the sprinkler line, I included photos of the flooding of my window well, and I spent my night clearing out the water to minimize the damage to the post.

  4)  I did talk to the crew as I had concerns about how the fence was being built.  This communication is normal when you are contracting a project.  Todd yelled at me on the phone and threatened to leave the fence unfinished if I talked to his crew one more time.  Not only was his behavior flat out unprofessional, but he used scare tactics to get me to be quiet and not say anything.  Now I've ended up with a fence that looks terrible and functionally will accumulate snow between the two layers of pickets because of the gap between the top caps

  4) Todd's indication about gaps between the boards is normal and this was not something I shared as a concern.  However, the cracks in the wood indicate poor quality materials used.  These photos were taken upon completion of the work the the wood had not been exposed to the "hot Colorado weather."  Looking at prior reviews, this is the company's response to any quality concerns. The split in the wood if from where the nail was shot.

  5) Todd claimed he sent a 6/28 email replying to my concerns.  I've indicated several times since that I did not receive that email, and requested a copy which was never provided. 

  6) Todd indicates "we did NOT charge her for any addition work."  I'm confused as initial contract was for $5860 and we had agreed to $180 additional for the neighbor's wing via email not reflected on the contract for a total of $6040  Final invoice was $6240.  No communication about unexpected price increase at any point in the project. Todd's invoice (photo included) accounts the price hike to additional feet of fencing (see itemization) and a fence wheel. I was not notified for additional feet of fencing and Todd and crew had the opportunity to measure the fencing in advance.  His crew had offered to install (screw in the two bolts for the wheel) when they built the gate and stated there was no charge for this.  The price difference between the contracted work and the non-contracted invoice was $200.  Imagine my surprise when I received an invoice requesting payment for something that had not been agreed to.  You can see this was charged to additional feet of fencing and the wheel, not jackhammering as he tries to indicate in his reply.  If the extra charge was for jackhammering, that's what should have been invoiced, not additional feet of fencing. I've never received an invoice that had any jackhammering fees on it, and I pointed out to Todd that he had billed me for additional fencing not jackhammering--only after that did he start saying that he could bill me for jackhammering.  For someone with as much experience as him, measuring a straight line of fencing should not be such a challenge.

  7) When I indicated to Todd that I had not agreed to additional feet of fencing and that he'd had the opportunity to measure in advance of the project, he then tried to write off the extra fees as jackhammering fees, even though the invoice does not have any line items for jackhammering.    Despite his own reply that we did NOT charge her for any addition work" he follows that "she still has an outstanding balance of $110."  I did mail payment and indicated that I was generously covering a portion of the invoiced work that had not been agreed to and I'd consider the project paid in full when the check was cashed.  Diane emailed that Todd would follow up if he had any questions.  The check has been cashed, but the final paid invoice has not been remitted.

   

  Other reviews have indicated the same problems: poor communication, poor workmanship, and surprise billing practices.  I should have heeded those warnings as it would have saved me a lot of unnecessary hassle.

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