ComplaintsforKitco Metals Inc.

• Initial Complaint

  01/11/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I have a unallocated silver account with Kitco which I have had for 15 years and about a year ago I wanted to move on to *************** in the U.S. where I would get some interest on my silver. Therefore, I asked Kitco if I could "transfer" my unallocated silver to *************** by a transaction where *************** would open an account with Kitco and Kitco would make an internal transfer from my account to *************** account. *************** would then give me the corresponding amount of silver in an account with them. However, Kitco rejected the proposed transaction saying "Kitco cannot transfer assets from one account to another on the basis that as a precious metals dealer, we are not licensed to transfer holdings from one entity to another". However, ******* said they do not regulate Kitco beyond the PCMLTFA which includes legal obligations such as keeping records, verifying client's identity and reporting certain types of financial transactions to ******* but that it is not within *******'s authority to regulate how business provide services to its customers including their decisions to transfer assets from one entity to another. In addition, in the second paragraph of the PCMLTFA ************************************************* it says "As a dealer in precious metals and precious stones, you are subject to PCMLTFA obligations once you engage in the purchase and sale of precious metals, precious stones or jewellery in the amount of $10,000 or more. In other words, you are not subject to these requirements if you only engage in purchases or sales of less than $10,000 per transaction." Therefore, Kitco should be able to make internal account transfers from one entity to another at least in transactions in the amount of less than $10,000 per transactions since they would not be subject to those PCMLTFA obligations. Therefore, it feels like Kitco is deliberately preventing me from “transfer-out” my account.

  

  Business response

  01/11/2022

  Thank you for writing in with your complaint. Your complaint is under review and Kitco will respond once our investigation is complete. Thank you again.

  Customer response

  08/11/2022

  
  Complaint: 18342047
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  

  Hello Mr. ***********

  Thank you for mentioning that Kitco are having an open mind for creative solutions. That is a first step to find common ground. I understand that my account transfer request is uncommon. I get that, but you would do me a huge favor. Let me explain why this account transfer request is so important to me. The only reason I ask for this account transfer request in the first place is because of the huge premiums which have negated the option for me to convert to physical silver and have it shipped to ***************. I was never planning to sell and therefore I think my account transfer request is a reasonable option instead since it would not matter to Kitco anyway.

  In mid december 2019 the premium for a 1 oz. silver Austrian Philharmonic coin was as low as $1.50 and now it is $8.45. That is a huge 463% increase! While the silver price has risen from about $17 to $19.15 during the same time. That is a 12.64% increase during the same time. For that specific coin the premium is now 44% of the silver price while it was 8.80% by the end of 2019.

  On Kitcos homepage it has said since at least 2007 “a small premium is charged when you exchange pool holdings for physical precious metals”. That is not a small premium anymore. I have always believed in that statement on Kitcos homepage and I thought that premiums would remain relatively small and rise in lockstep with silver. I never thought it would be this disconnect between the silver price and premiums. That is why I now feel misled.

  Under current market conditions with the high premiums I do not think that I should have to sell with Kitco and repurchase with *************** and incur a US$5,000 spread cost and not being able to hedge the silver price while the funds would be in transit when I have the opportunity to make an account transfer instead and since Kitco would not lose any revenue anyway. However, I would like to take this opportunity to offer Kitco C$1,000 as compensation for my account transfer request so it would be a mutually beneficial solution.

  I hope that Kitco realize that I am fortunate to have this opportunity at all. If *************** would not agree to this account transfer proposal I would be out of luck and I would have no choice but to sell with Kitco and repurchase with ***************. That is why I urge Kitco to accept my account transfer request since I have been a customer with Kitco for 15 years and are now basically held hostage by the high premiums.

  If we can find common ground with the fact that the account transfer is mutually beneficial why do we not see if it is possible to make it happen. I have been in contact with ******* and they said that it is not within *******'s authority to regulate how business provide services to its customers including their decisions to transfer assets from one entity to another.

  Therefore it should not matter whether I convert to physical silver and have it shipped to *************** or if my unallocated silver is transferred from my account to *************** account within Kitco since Kitco would have to keep records, verify customer’s identity and report the transaction to ******* either way.

  Kitco should be able to report my account transfer to *************** to ******* just like as if I would convert to physical silver and have it shipped to ***************. The only difference is that one transfer is of physical silver while the other transfer is of unallocated silver.

  I think it is unfair of Kitco to allow someone to convert to physical metals and have it shipped to someone you trust but at the same time rejecting an internal account transfer within Kitco to the same entity you trust.

  I hope that Kitco appreciate the predicament I am in because of the high premiums. I would prefer to just convert to physical silver and have it shipped to *************** but now when that option is gone I urge Kitco to accept an alternative solution such as the proposed account transfer when I am fortunate to have that opportunity because of *************** since I was never planning to sell.

  Sincerely,
  
  ****** ********

  

  Business response

  09/11/2022

  Thank you once again for your detailed response.
  
  It is the final decision that Kitco will not issue a transfer of Kitco – Pool Metals holdings.
  
  Your option is to convert from Kitco – Pool Metals to a physical metal, in accordance with product policy. We can offer to ship the physical metals in accordance with our shipping policy. You may also liquidate your holdings or a portion of them. We understand what you are proposing, however what you propose is not part of the Terms and Conditions and will not be considered.
  
  Premiums, also known as fabrication costs, on bullion, and on individual bullion products are a function of market conditions beyond Kitco’s control. Despite the outstanding pressure on product premiums, we still offer some products that still carry a premium in line with general premium prices as they were, even prior to December 2019. These premiums, also known as fabrication costs, are also in line, if not often more favorable, than those of our competitors.
  
  We continue to invite you to contact our Trade Desk who may also (should you qualify and at Kitco’s discretion), in accordance with our policy as shown on our site, offer discounts on orders exceeding USD $75,000 or more.
  
  While I am sorry these options are not the options you want, they are the only options available to you under our Terms and Conditions. We consider this issue closed.
  
  Thank you for your time and understanding. 

  Customer response

  10/11/2022

  ***** ****** ******** ************************* ***** ******** *** **** ***** ** *** ******** ******** *********************** ******** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ******* **** *******

   

   

   

   

  I would just like to let you know that on october 29, 2021 Kitco asked me "Is the entity you would like to transfer the metal to an existing Kitco account holder? If so, please provide us with the existing account number" and "Can you describe your existing relationship to the entity you would like to transfer the metal to? And the reason for which the transfer is being requested", "We would like to assist you with the request, and require the above solicited info in order to better gage it's feasibility".

   

  These questions from Kitco can be seen in the supporting document "Request to transfer Pool Metal" and clearly shows that they are able to transfer pool metal to other accounts and to other entities.

   

  However, once I responded that I would like to transfer my pool holdings to another company I was told "Kitco cannot transfer assets from one account to another on the basis that as a precious metals dealer, we are not licensed to transfer holdings from one entity to another".

   

  So first they asked me if the enity I would like to transfer to is an existing Kitco account holder and the reasons for which the transfer is being requested only to later tell me that they are not licensed to transfer holdings from one entity to another. This is one inconsistency I alluded to and when I pointed out that ******* does not have authority to regulate how businesses service their customers including their decisions to transfer assets from one enity to another contrary to what Kitco said they just ignore to answer. So what they told me about not being able to transfer assets to other entities was simply not true.

   

   

  Best regards,

   

   

  ****** ********

• Initial Complaint

  08/07/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  I bought 20 1 oz. gold coins from Kitco that came yesterday. When I tested them today my tester shows they are not gold but brass. Gold is also soft and these are as hard as brass. When tested on a coin it turned brown when there shouldn't be any color. I have been trying all day to call them and the recording is as if they have blocked my phone number. Their # is *************** The recording is "You are not authorized to call this number". I also tested some other coins I bought months ago and they too test as brass. All together I am out about $50,000.00

  

  Business response

  08/07/2022

  Good afternoon Mr. ***********
  
  
  Thank you for reaching out to us with your concern.
  
  
  First, we must apologize that you are unable to get through to one of our agents. Our phone service provider, as of today July the 8th, is experiencing an outage on a national scale. We are also unable to call out. We will reach out to you on Monday directly so that we can speak in person. We are sorry for this.
  
  
  All Kitco products are tested before entering into, or leaving, our facilities and our couriers are unaware of what they carry. Additionally, our MintFirst line of products come directly from the refiner and are guaranteed uncirculated. Kitco does not favor home-based acid testing for most accurate testing results. We use Sigma Scopes, XRFs, and other testing, all machine calibrated to produce perfect readings, to make sure the product we send out is truly what it is supposed to be.
  
  
  We would recommend taking one of your pieces to a jeweler, or goldsmith, who will be able to provide more professional analysis of your pieces.

   

  Regards,

  *****

  Customer response

  11/07/2022

   
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: Just because you say it is gold does not make it so. The acid test cannot be done as usual because the gold is so hard it will not make a mark on the stone. IF IT WAS 24K GOLD IT WOULD BE SOFT. Yet, when I test a 10K gold ring, WHICH SHOULD BE HARDER it makes a good mark. So explain why a SOFT GOLD WON'T MARK BUT A HARD GOLD WILL MARK.

   ALSO, WHEN I PLACE THE ACID DIRECTLY ON THE COIN IT TURNS A BROWNISH COLOR WHEN IT SHOULD NOT REACT ON 24K GOLD.
  
  Sincerely,
  ***** **********

  

  Business response

  12/07/2022

  Hello Mr. **********

  Thanks for speaking with one of our Supervisors yesterday.  If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to us.  We're always happy to help.

  Regards,

  *****

   

  Customer response

  12/07/2022

   
  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
  
  Sincerely,
  ***** **********

• Initial Complaint

  12/05/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Delivery Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Hello , I placed an order with Kitco and sent them a check as per instructions right away on April 06, 2022. They received the check on time and it was cashed on April 11, 2022. They claimed to have shipped the product via ***** on April 21, 2022. However on April 29, 022 ***** sent me a delivery exception notice. I called ***** and they said that because the box was empty they will return it to Kitco. I have since been following up with Kitco and they are saying that they waiting for the shipper to respond. It has been over 15 days now that they have been unable to get a response from the shipper. It was Kitco's fault that they shipped me an empty box. I had also paid for insurance so I should not have to wait. I believe I deserve an immediate refund. Thank you.

  

  Business response

  20/05/2022

  Hello,

   

  After reviewing the file and discussing with the customer we have provided a refund.

   

  Regards,

  *****

• Initial Complaint

  15/06/2021

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Following is an email I sent to Kitco. In response to this email I had a short phone coversation with one Kitco representative and then was referred to another person and had two conversations with her. From the first short call to the referral to the second person, I got the feeling they didn't want to respond electronically to my email. ln the second call with the second person we basically came to an impasse. She wasn't buying my logic nor mine hers. I felt some condescension toward the end of that call. Another aspect of this situation, I based my decision on the difference in the gold price in US $ which is the first differential they show on their website. In Canada why don't they show it first in C$ as that is the transaction currency we end up transacting in? Thu 2021-05-27 3:57 PM * *** * ***** **** ****** ********** ** **** ** ****** ********* * *** ****** ** ** **** ***** **** ** *** **** *** ** ***** **** ** *** * *** **** *** ***** **** ****

  

  Business response

  21/06/2021

  Thank you for taking the time to express your concerns with us.
  
  On ************************ the ask & bid pricing of precious metals per troy ounce is listed only in American dollars in the right-hand panel. We encourage our customers who would like to see the Canadian, Euro, or British Pound version of the ask & bid pricing to use ***************** or one of our applications ( ******************************* ) as the currency can be switched around with such tools.
  
  
  In either case, please note the numbers you see displayed are not Kitco’s numbers, or Kitco’s ask & bid pricing, but rather the pricing arrangements on the relevant commodities exchange (usually New York). Those would be the going rates if you were directly interfacing with those commodities markets. Kitco, like any other vendor, offers pricing slightly over the ask and under the bid for its transactions. Please note these values are in near-constant fluctuations and can vary from one moment to another, oftentimes with considerable volatility. If you would be so kind as to visit ********************************************** you may see this in action.
  
  
  Please keep in mind the numbers you see at the end of the day on daily reporting are an amalgamation of all the prices throughout that day.
  
  
  On ************************ you can select the currency of your choice to view pricing per item or to place your transaction. Furthermore; you can see a real-time display of the fabrication cost, or premium, of each item we have had available in recent times by visiting ****************************************** and noting your product. The fabrication cost is always available in real-time and makes up how much it costs Kitco to source, store, process, and secure the product. As a handy tip, if you subtract the fabrication cost of the item from the price of the item you are interested in, at the time of purchase, you can calculate the exact price Kitco is offering for the precious metal itself.
  
  
  Unless you are specifically asking to pay for a Canadian purchase in Canada with a foreign currency, or wish to make money from a Canadian sale with a foreign currency, the exchange is not typically a factor in your transaction. As all of your transactions were concluded in Canada and Canadian currency, you did not transact in American dollars. If you did decide to transact in a foreign currency, however, please note that we would offer pricing on currency exchange once again slightly over the ask and slightly under the bid for the exchange.
  
  
  For your purchase on November 16 of 2020, you were charged Kitco’s ask of $2514.85 per ounce, at that exact moment of transaction, with a fabrication charge of $26.57 per unit. There was also an $8.98 processing fee for the whole transaction. Those figures were from the very second your transaction was confirmed and would have been the same information displayed when you concluded your purchase through the *********************************** site.
  
  
  It is Kitco’s hope this provides a full clarification into the workings of the transaction process. Please let us know if you have any additional questions and we would be happy to assist or provide an additional breakdown. We are not happy if our customer walks away from their experience feeling deceived. This all being said, we are very sorry your conversations with our Kitco representatives were unproductive and did not yield the explanations you deserve. We are especially sorry if you felt condescended as well. We promise to look into your interactions with an eye to corrective action. At Kitco, we try our very best to provide a level of high excellence in customer service; it seems we only caused frustration. We apologize for this profusely. 

  Customer response

  23/06/2021

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:  This is just a lengthier quantitative explanation again of the situation.  I want them to directly address the math in my analysis refuting it or acknowledging it's accuracy and providing a refund.  Let's see the quantitative facts and logic or not.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *** ****

  

  Business response

  30/06/2021

  Thank you for your patience. We apologize if we did not answer your question to your satisfaction earlier.
  
  
  The below math is correct in principle, however exchanges rates and market prices move from minute to minute so depending on the exact times we are looking at they may differ. If we understand the calculation correctly you seem to be pointing out a market loss between a purchase and a sale. When booking your order with Kitco you are effectively locking in the current market price to the minute and accepting this price for your order.
  
  
  Kitco will always try to offer the lowest exchange rates possible for customers wishing to transact with us in currencies other than USD. There is no obligation for our customers to use our exchange rates as we accept USD from all customers regardless of country of residency.
  
  
  For us to provide you with a more complete response, we would ask that you contact us directly so we can provide you with the exact pricing for all orders that would have been placed with us. By looking into your orders we will be able to give you the exact market prices and exchange rates used.

  Customer response

  02/07/2021

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:  Clever response from Kitco to get the customer to just through up their arms in the air and just say whatever and give up.  Not happening.  ********* *** *** *** ******  **** ** *** **** **** *** **** * ************* *********** ** ** *** ******** ******* **********  Kitco, what is the name,, position and phone number of the person I am to call?
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *** ****

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