ComplaintsforPlamondon White Sands Resort

• Initial Complaint

  03/08/2021

  Complaint Type:

  Customer Service Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Plamondon White Sands Resort evicted us from campsite on August 1st, 2021. Without definite reason, no refund. Staff and peace officer involved completely rude, and unethical. Mocked us, and called us ignorant.

  

  Business response

  03/08/2021

  Good afternoon, 
  
  In response to the complaint received August 3, 2021, here is what happened from our perspective:
  On Sunday, August 1, 2021, *** *******'s party checked into 3 sites: B43, B44, and B45. At check-in they were given a copy of the rules to read over and were verbally warned against speeding in the Park. 
  A little while later, one of their guests was driving approximately 30-40km/h by the playground. As the speed limit in the campground is 10km/h, and they were already warned against speeding, once our security lady was able to catch up to them, she took their license plate number, and vehicle description and told them that they had to park at the gate and walk to their site as this is now their second warning, the first being at check-in when we read them the rules. She very clearly instructed the gentleman driving that if his truck was found beyond the campground gate, he will be asked to leave immediately.
  Later on, our security lady, *****, received a complaint regarding really loud music coming from Site B43. When she went down there she could hear their music from multiple sites down and went to talk to them. ***** informed them that it states in the rules (Rule number 3 to be exact) that they must turn their music down to a respectable volume so that it is mostly contained to their site. 
  
  At this time while ***** went to warn them of the noise violation, she noticed that the truck that she instructed must park at the gate was parked at their site. Same vehicle and plate number. ***** then came back to the office to ask upper management about protocol to deal with the situation, where she was informed to call the RCMP as this is now very disrespectful not only to the rules for being caught flying down the roads where there are so many kids at play (We had over 1000 people here this past August Long weekend), but now he has disregarding security's warnings to him. 
  The RCMP were called in and myself, and ***** showed them to the site with the truck to help ensure that he left without issue. Upon getting to the site we could hear their music from 5-6 sites down again. So now they had been warned about the truck, AND the music now and they hadn't complied with the rules, or the warnings on either account. 
  When we got to the site we informed them of the eviction for all 3 sites as they were all together with the music and were all given the rules when given parking passes. We gave them 1 hour to pack up and leave due to all the rule violations. They in turn kept saying that they didn't know the rules and weren't aware that he was speeding. To which we informed them that he was very clearly made aware of the consequences for his truck being found in the park again, as well, they were warned verbally and in the rules for the noise violations. 
  When informed by the Peace Officer that "ignorance is not an excuse" they immediately got defensive saying that we can't call them ignorant. The Peace Offer immediately apologized for the miscommunication, informing them that he wasn't calling them ignorant, just explaining that the reason that they "didn't know" the rules is because they chose not to read them after being instructed to, and additionally, chose to ignore the warning from Security.
  When we walked back to the RCMP truck to finish our statements for his report, one of the ladies on their site, B43, started yelling to us that we were racist and that is the only reason for their eviction. I would like to note that we are NOT racist, we welcome and respect everyone regardless of their background so long as they abide by the same rules that we give to everyone that comes here. *****, our security lady, being Indigenous herself, was highly offended by the remark and did yell back at them stating that she isn't racist, just look at the colour of her skin. 
  I would like to add that when they were warned the first time of their rule violations, ***** was very respectful as she is with everyone here at the campground. When giving them the eviction notice, she was still polite and calm, she explained why they were being evicted and mentioned the warnings and the rules that they had been given. We had initially given them 30 minutes to pack up and leave (as the rules state that there is an immediate eviction upon the second warning), when they stated they have kids and a lot to pack up, we were accommodating to their needs and upped their time frame to 1 hour. 
  I have ******** a copy of the rules that they, and the members of their party would have been given upon check-in *** *** ** **** **** *** ******. Please note that at the top it does state that the site holder is responsible for all of those in their party. 
  We didn't enjoy evicting them, we wouldn't have had any problems if they had simply showed the same respect for the rules as the other 1000 guests that we had here this past weekend had. 

  We are sorry that it had to come to this unfortunate conclusion, but there are too many kids running around here any given day to be lenient with the speeding and we are a family campground that values respect to your neighbors when camping. 

  Sincerely, 

  ******* ****

  Customer response

  04/08/2021

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I, ******* ******* am writing about racism and discrimination incident that occurred at Plamondon White Sands Resort, ***** ** ***** ***** ***** ** ***** ********** ** *** **** on August 1st, 2021 around 9:15PM-10:00PM.
  
  
  I arrived at Plamondon White Sands Resort around 8:45PM, while the rest of our group arrived around 5:20PM-5:30PM. We had three sites which were right beside each other. 
  
  
  Shortly after 9PM, I was inside a tent with my sister, ******* when we overheard something about, we have to leave. We both went outside of the tent and one of the people we were with told us that we have to leave and start packing up. There were 2 ladies (1 who was around her 40s, and the other around her teens-early 20s) and a male peace officer, all three are Caucasian. The older lady said that we are being evicted, I thought that they were joking around with eachother, as she had a smile on her face while saying it. I paused and went silent and I kindly asked them, why we had to leave. The older lady pointed at one of the guys we were with, ****, that, he was speeding 40-50km around the playground and that he was told that he can only go up to 10km speed, and was told that if his truck is seen in the campsite that he’ll have 30mins eviction, she also mentioned that we have noise complaints. I then relayed the message to the rest of the group and the ladies and male officer also went on one of our sites and said that we have 30mins to leave as we are getting evicted.***** who is with us approached the ladies and the officer to understand the situation. The older lady then pointed at **** and said that we should blame him, as he was the one speeding. I asked if the noise complaints were because of the kids, the younger lady said no and that it is because of the music. And that we have been told already to turn the volume down. We did turn the volume down. During this incident, the music can only be heard through 1 of our sites. We then asked if we could stay still considering that we have kids with us (8 kids, including 2 infants). The older lady said she does feel bad for the kids but we still have to leave because of the speeding, and that we have been told about the music already. ***** asked again and said please, to let us stay. I asked if this could be discussed and advised them that we’ll turn the music off and if possible, only **** could leave, and the entire group could stay considering the kids and the travel for us to go back home. Answer was still no, and that we had 30mins to pack-up and leave, and we could go at other campsites. 
  
  
  While the ladies, *****, and I were discussing the peace officer kept repeating that because we are not abiding the 30mins eviction we are now considered as trespassing, and that we will be fined and jailed. We asked if we could get a refund as we have now agreed to leave, older lady said no as we are being evicted due to the warnings.On top of that, when we asked why we were being evicted the officer called us ignorant, “ignorance is not a reason” andthat we should know the rules of the campsite, then slowly uttered “you understand that right?”. I did ask him not to reword it that way as he is making it seem like we are not understanding what they were saying, he immediately apologized and said that was not what he meant.We only asked about the situation as we were not aware of any of it, we were fully aware of the rules of the campsite. We told them we were allowed to play music until 11PM, as stated on their rules, the younger lady said we can as long as it is at a reasonable volume, which we lowered it to after being asked earlier.
  At this point kids were crying. My nephew, who is 4 years old went inside one of the cars and was bawling as hewas scared at the officer because he overheard what he was saying about us having to leave.  I realized at this moment that there was no point of the discussion and they have already decided for us to leave in the very beginning. Both ladies spoke to us maliciously – they did look like they were mocking us about the situation and how we are responding about it.
  
  
  I asked if we could have an hour instead or if they could wait until we can pack everything as 30 mins is not enough. Older lady agreed. They stayed around while we were packing up. **** yelled “racist” as we realized that this has now become a discrimination and racism, recalling the way the ladies and peace officer talked to us. Older lady yelled back and said “excuse me do you see the color of my skin?” that she is the person that we shouldn’t be saying it to.
  
  
  Around 10:05PM-10:10PM, we all left the site and noticed that a peace officer vehicle was following us. We drove to Lac La Biche seeking to find a place for us to stay *********** *** ******* ********** *** ********. We we’re able to get a hold of someone we knew that resides in Lac La Biche, and were told that all campsites are now closed, all surrounding sites are only until 10PM.
  
  
  I spoke to ****, about the situation and he had told me that the older lady had never told him anything about speeding, rather he was only told off about parking by the washroom. He parked by the washroom as he had to drive his wife *** *** ********* ***** *** **** *** *******, hemoved the vehicle when he was told not to park by the washroom. He did not speed as there were children and bicycles around the area.
  
  I immediately called Plamondon White Sands Resort back asked for management or owner seeking that they would let us stay, as now we have nowhere to go and we are in an area we are unfamiliar with, with kids and bad service. I explained to the lady that picked up the phone that we have been evicted due to the noise and speeding, but now that I have come to understand that **** was never spoken to about the speeding, we have been evicted for such unreasonable reason. The lady said we have been evicted for a reason and peace officers were there for that, I asked what the reason was now that we have known that we didn’t disobey the speed limit. The lady could not give us a definite answer and said that we have been kicked out for violating the rules but could not say which. I told her the whole situation has been unfair on our end as now we’ve been kicked out for no definite reason. She then responded “well life is unfair; it doesn’t always go the way you want it to” in a slow and mockery voice. I told her she can't be possibly saying that as they are running a business.
  
  
  We left Lac La Biche at 11PM* ** ******** **** **** ***** ***** ** *** *****
  
  
  The following day, we all discussed, and have gathered more incidents that occurred from each other from the people at the resort.
  - My sister, *****, another lady we’re with, and children were taking pictures by the beach, and the docking area with boats. They were told by an older male- Caucasian“can't you read the sign.” They were only taking pictures on the dock and did not enter the gate with “private dock and property no trespassing” sign. The man seemed like he owns one of the boats as he had a key to enter.
  - Following the above incident, something fell off *****’s pocket and was told by the same man “a garbage fell off your pocket.” A tissue she used to wipe her children’s nose fell off her pocket, and she did pick it up and did not litter.
  - The parking incident by the washroom, which he immediately moved his car.
  
  The time whole we were at Plamondon White Sands Resort, we did not feel welcome, it did seem like every move we were doing was being watched and that we were walking on eggshells.
  ****** ******* **** **************** * *** **** ******** *** ******** *** **** **** *
  

  
  Thank you kindly,
  ******* *******
  Sincerely,
  
  ******* *******

  
  

   

  
  

   

  

  Business response

  10/08/2021

  In response to their rejection of our version of events:
  

  To start, I would like to acknowledge that the only person registered to campsites B43, B44, and B45 for the night of August 1, 2021 was *** *******, and while making their reservation online, clicked the box agreeing to the following Terms and Conditions, as available online:
  

  “IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO READ ALL OUR RULES AND REGULATIONS 
  YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THOSE IN YOUR PARTY.
  IMMEDIATE EVICTION UPON SECOND WARNING!!!
  SPEED LIMIT IS 10 KM                 (Children are playing) 
  QUIET TIME is at 11:00 pm.   
  Absolutely NO MUSIC of any kind allowed after 11:00 pm. (NO loud talking, cursing, etc.) Respect your neighbor! 
  Please do not blast music from your car, trailer or stereo system.
  All sewer outlets must have a proper fitting to seal it off for environmental reasons. (Don’t stuff your hose down the hole).
  Children & youth under 18 must be at parent or guardians’ site by 11:00 pm.
  Keep pets on a leash at all times and clean up behind them (the next campers do not like stepping in dog poop).
  Please note the campground has 30-amp service only.
  ABSOLUTELY NO PARKING on road or empty lots (use designated parking)        
  Please leave your site as clean as you found it (surcharge could be applied).
  No food or garbage is to be thrown in fire pits. (Let’s keep the bears and scavengers away).
  There is No Cutting of trees or branches (surcharge WILL be applied).
  Alcohol is allowed on your site ONLY.
  Absolutely NO FIRES or camping on the beach.
  Any person wanting to wash their trailer, must purchase a permit at the office. The cost is $40.00, we haul all our water into the resort. 
  No washing of boats or vehicles permitted.
  Firing off fireworks without a permit is illegal. Please obtain a permit from the office.
  Campers and Visitors must stop at the office upon arrival for a parking pass. Visitors must leave by 11:00pm.
  No ATV’S or GAS-POWERED TOYS allowed in campground.
  Group Area - No extension cords to be run from shelter for any reason.
  IF YOU LEAVE OR ARE ASKED TO LEAVE FOR ANY REASON THERE WILL BE NO REFUND                         
  SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS ARE ON PREMISES
  CANCELLATIONS/ALTERATIONS: 
  There are no refunds for inclement weather, late arrivals, or early departures. 
  Bookings cannot be amended within 7 days of arrival. 
  For any changes or cancellation to this reservation, please contact our office directly through our email [email protected] or by phone 780-798-2254.
  "No Shows" will not be refunded under any circumstances. 
  If you wish to cancel your reservation and receive a refund, we require a notice of a minimum of 7 days (with Noon being the starting time). All cancellations will be subject to a $5 service fee. There will be no exceptions, regardless of the circumstances.”
  
  Secondly, I would like to clearly layout the timeline and sequence of events that occurred. According to *******’s response, she didn’t arrive until 8:45PM, which would have been after the warnings for both speeding and noise violations had been given. That being said, campsites B43, B44, and B45 checked in at 4:30PM, 4:31PM, and 6:58PM, respectively, according to the check-in time-stamps on their reservations. According to the timestamp on the photos taken of the license plate for the Silver-Grey ***** truck that was caught speeding excessively through the campground, he was stopped at 7:30PM, and told that he must park his truck at the office parking spaces, and is no longer permitted to be driving in the campground. Our security lady then received the noise complaint around 7:50PM for Site B43 and went down to their sites and politely asked them to turn the volume down. And to keep it at a respectful volume. At 8:18PM she discovered the truck back in the camp stall. At 8:30PM, the RCMP were called to help back us with the eviction of the gentleman driving the truck, as he had been warned that if his truck was found within the campground other than where he was told to park,  he would be given a 30-minute eviction notice. When the RCMP arrived from Lac La Biche at approximately 9:13PM, Security, the Peace Officer, and I went down to Sites B45, B44, and B43 to evict the gentleman with the truck. On our way down there, the music from Site B43 could be heard from multiple sites away again. Due to this being the second violation for noise in less than an hour, the decision was made that all three sites would be getting evicted rather than just the gentleman with the truck that was warned to park at the office parking. Please remember that the rules clearly state at the very beginning that there is an “immediate eviction upon second warning.” At this point it was about 9:26PM and we gave the group 30 minutes to pack up and leave. When they stated that they had a lot of tents, and gear to pack up, as well as the kids, we were understanding of the limits that this time constraint put on them and extended the thirty minute time frame to 1 hour, giving them until 10:26PM to be packed up and off the sites. With this timeline in mind, and the time table that they put in their complaint and ******** Review, I’m not sure why they are saying that we evicted them at 11:00PM and midnight.
  

  The safety of all guests here at the campground is our first priority. That is why the speed limit is so heavily enforced throughout the campground. It is also why we have so many signs posting the speed limit throughout the campground. It’s why we tell every guest, whether they are camping or visiting, to drive slowly, the speed limit is 10km/h. You cannot get a parking pass from the office without being told the speed limit whether you have been here once or a thousand times. With over 1000 people, and kids running across the roads without looking, stressing and enforcing that speed limit is essential in maintaining this safe environment for kids to be kids. We would hate for someone to get hurt because someone is driving at nauseating speeds through the campground.

  
  With these rules and reasons for enforcement in mind, the reasons that *** ******* and Company were evicted is due to speeding over 40km/hr through the campground and the excessive volume of the music coming from site B43.
  

  At 7:30, as mentioned in our timeline, our Security lady stopped a Silver-Grey ***** Pick-Up Truck that was going approximately 40-50km/hr through the campground. Due to the speed of the vehicle, and the dust it was kicking up, identifying the driver was impossible until after they had parked.. As mentioned in our first response all guests and visitors must stop at the office to get a parking pass and are given their first warning regarding speeding in the park. With that in mind, this would now be his second warning. We do not enjoy evicting people, so because of the excessive speed, the gentleman driving was warned that he now had to park his truck at the gate and would no longer be permitted to drive his vehicle through the campground. They have claimed in their response that security never mentioned anything about speed and that they weren’t speeding in the park, however, we have eye witnesses that watched the truck speed by the A-Loop playground and witnessed Security go and talk to the driver. Security mentioned that the gentleman has asked where the bathrooms were, to which she gave him directions and informed him that they would have to walk as their truck is not permitted to drive within the campground anymore. This is the only interaction that security had with them regarding the bathrooms.

  
  When we delivered the eviction notice, the gentleman that was speeding was singled out and we informed the group that his inability to respect the posted speed limit is one of the main reasons for the eviction. The rules clearly state at the very beginning that the site holder is responsible for those in their party and, as such, the gentleman’s speeding is reflected on all of them. We informed them that he is the one to blame, in part, for the eviction as they kept telling us that we can’t do this to them. We didn’t do this. We were simply upholding the same rules that the other 1000 plus campers here had been abiding by all weekend. We were simply doing our job to ensure that our guests are safe and get the most out of their stay here. We are a family campground with hundreds of kids running around any given weekend. Our top priority is keeping these kids safe and giving the parents peace of mind to enjoy themselves and relax while on vacation, and not have to worry about their children potentially getting hit by a speeding vehicle.
  

  Our guests and campers enjoy coming here because of the quiet, family environment, that we offer, and where we enforce the rules. This is why we are strict on the volume levels of music and quiet times. We are a family campground and we respect the fact that not everyone likes the same music. That is one of the reasons why we ask that guests keep the volume of their music respectful in such a manner that we can’t hear from five campsites away.

  
  When given the initial warning for music at 8:18PM they had turned down the volume, however, when we went back later with the Peace Officer at 9:20PM the volume was turned back up and could be heard over the security cart from many sites away. That now makes this the second noise violation in about an hour, from the same campsite. This is what prompted us to evict all three sites rather than just the owner of the truck. When we arrived to give the eviction notice, one of the ladies at the site tried to negotiate with us, saying that they will turn the music off, but unfortunately at this point it was too late. If they had taken the warnings when they were given, we wouldn’t have had to evict them and they could have enjoyed a nice evening camping with us. The warnings that we had given them were their second chance and they made the decision not to take them seriously.
  

  I would again like to acknowledge that we never called them ignorant. Name-calling is petty, rude, and quite frankly, extremely unprofessional. When delivering the eviction, the lady that was trying to negotiate with us kept repeating that she “didn’t know” and it was simply stated that “ignorance is not an excuse.” We were not calling them ignorant we were simply trying to explain that it was their responsibility to read the rules and abide by them. Claiming to not know the rules, or being ignorant of the rules is not an excuse and would never hold up in a Court of Law. It was their responsibility to read and abide by the rules they were provided and agreed to, as stated at the beginning of the rues, and Terms and Conditions.
  

  As well, the Peace Officer never said that they were trespassing and were going to be charged and jailed. He informed them that now that we have given them their eviction notice and asked them to leave, if they do not comply, by Alberta law, they would then be trespassing and could face fines and potentially jail time. He wasn’t threatening them, he was merely informing and educating them of the laws regarding the situation and what the next steps would be if they did not comply with the notice to leave.
  

  I would like to add that there were witnesses for the eviction itself who can attest that we were professional and kind to these people and delivered the eviction without mockery or discrimination. When they say that we walked away and waited for them to pack up and were mocking them, we were not. We did walk away, to give them some time to pack up without feeling like we were hovering. We moved to the Peace Officer’s truck to finish our statements for the Peace Officer’s report, providing our names, and the events leading up to the eviction. The only time race or ethnicity ever became relevant was when they began yelling that we were racist. As someone who has been victimized because of her ethnicity as an Indigenous woman, ***** is a staunch defender against racism and accepts everyone based on their actions and behaviour. The ethnicity of these individuals was never in question and still isn’t a factor in this case for us. We welcome all individuals regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual-orientation, or background. Our top priorities are safety and respect and both of those were blatantly ignored by *** *******’s party on campsites B43, B44, and B45.
  

  On this note, I would like to bring attention to the fact that not all three of us are Caucasian as ******* claimed. Myself and the Peace Officer are both Caucasian, however, our Security lady is not. She is a well-respected Indigenous woman in the community, and has had to work for everything she has and has overcome much adversity because of her culture. ******* ** *** **** *** ** ******** *** ******* *** ********** **** *** ******* ** **** ** ****

  
  If ***** was perceived to have been “smiling” while giving them their eviction notice, it was a sympathetic smile, not a malicious or mocking smile. As someone that was there with her, I can guarantee you that I had a similar look on my face, not because we were happy to be evicting them or because we were mocking them, but simply because if we had scowls on our faces, we would’ve looked a lot meaner and more aggressive. We were simply trying to be friendly in spite of the blatant disrespect that had been shown for our other guest’s safety and the rules.
  

  When they phoned later that night after they had left and the office was closed, the lady that answered hadn’t been working all evening. The reason she couldn’t give them any answers as to why they were evicted was because she didn’t have all the information and couldn’t say what did or didn’t happen as she wasn’t there. She got the short version of the nights events. That the RCMP had been called in to assist with the eviction of a group on sites B43, B44, and B45 for continuing to break the rules after being warned several times. As I have known the elderly lady that answered the phone my whole life, I have a hard time believing that she would be so disrespectful and rude over the phone as ******* has claimed. Given that it is our word against hers and there is no evidence to the phone call we will have to leave it at that though. 
  In their response, ******* claimed that they feared for their safety because the Peace Officer followed them to Lac La Biche after they left the campground. If he followed them all the way to Lac La Biche, it is merely because they left at similar times and the Police station for the County is located in Lac La Biche. Plamondon is a small Hamlet, not big enough to merit the need for a police station, this is why the response time for the Peace Officer to get to the campground in the first place was 30 minutes. He had to come from Lac La Biche in the first place, and was simply returning to his station.

  
  According to our online booking system, we had over thirty-one thousand visitors camping here over the month of July alone. That being said, this is the first and only incident this summer where we have had to evict anyone. Given the diversity of our clientele this summer, I guarantee you that this eviction was not based race but rather the actions and behaviours of the group.
  

  In response to the incident that occurred at the beach that we were not aware of until just now, regarding the dock with the “No Trespassing” sign, the beach and lake are Crown Land and we do not have control over whose docks are in the water. We, the campground, do have 4 docks out in the water that are available for public use that do not bear the “No Trespassing” sign that these women were welcome to use but chose not to. Additionally, the gentleman that these women interacted with is not a member of our staff and, therefore, in no way represents our campground or our staff members. If they were having issues with fellow campers being rude or disrespectful, our security would have been happy to help correct the situation, had she been made aware of it. We do appreciate that they cleaned up the garbage that had fallen, as we do pride ourselves on keeping our campground as clean as possible.
  

  *** **** **** ******* *** **** *** **** ** ******** *** ******* *** ***** ************ ** ***  

  In closing, I would like to acknowledge that ******* has admitted that she, personally, wasn’t present for any of the previous warnings leading up to the eviction, as she claims not to have arrived until 8:45PM, which would have been after the Peace Officer had arrived. Because of this, her testimony would not be valid in a Court of Law and is all second-hand information that doesn’t match up with the information provided by *** *** in the review that she posted on ******** regarding the incident.
  
  ****** *** *** ******** **** ********** *** ***** ******** ****** *** *************
  

  Thank you for your time.
  

  Sincerely,
  

  ******* ****
  Manager
  Plamondon Whitesands Resort

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