Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:02/20/2024

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Transaction Date: 02/18/2024 Amount Paid to Business: $492.80 Service Requested: Remove and Replace bad Ignition Coil and Valve Cover Gasket Nature of Dispute: Mechanic failed to do a simple check to determine, which ignition coil was misfiring and replace two that were working properly instead of the one causing the issue.Did Business Try to Resolve Issue: No, the refuse to admit fault and will not fix the replace the bad ignition coil unless I pay additional money.

  Business Response

  Date: 02/22/2024

  The customer emailed and requested a service of a valve cover gasket and ignition coil replacement to be done on-site. We agreed to come out on a Sunday special request, we recommended preforming a diagnostic (which is an additional service) prior to us doing the repairs be he claimed he had a diagnostic done by another shop already and knew it needed a valve cover gasket and 1 ignition coil replaced. He also stated he wanted to keep costs down. We agreed to repair the valve cover gasket and ignition coil. Upon arrival the service advisor on site spoke to ********************** explained the valve cover gasket was leaking oil and 1 ignition coil was supposedly bad, he stated that the other shop told him 3 ignition coils were recommended to be replaced but 1 needed to be replaced definitely he also stated that they claimed a bunch of other work needed to be done but he did believe it needed to be done and he did not want to spend that much money on this car. He also stated the prior diagnostic was done over 2 months ago, He then gave us 1 ignition coil and the valve cover gasket (only part of the parts needed to complete the job correctly. The mechanic started with a scan of the vehicle, which was done at no additional cost, he identified multiple codes but pertaining to the misfire the only code to display was P0300 which identifies as a random misfire (meaning it could have multiple ignition coils failing). At that time the mechanic began to service the vehicle as he began, he noticed the *** valve was broken it needed to be removed to remove the intake manifold, as we continued to pull the intake manifold the intake gasket fell apart, so it needed to be replaced as well, we then pulled the ignition coils off noticing there were 3 different kinds, so some had been changed before. we pulled cylinder 3 and it was soaked in oil which is expected with a bad valve cover gasket, we continued to pull the spark plugs out all 4 plugs were covered in oil as well. at that time, I went to MR. ****** and explained what we found I recommended replacing the spark plugs, *** valve, intake manifold gasket and all 4 ignition coils being there were 3 different brand coils and random misfire and as he stated before the other shop recommended replacing 3 of the 4 ignition coils as well he agreed to replacing the *** valve, spark plugs and intake manifold gasket he denied the recommendation to replace the other 3 ignition coils he was missing. We went to the parts store to get the parts adding additional time to the service call (no additional cost was applied to him). We returned the mechanic removed the valve cover gasket and checked the clearance of the valves and replaced the valve cover gasket after cleaning the valve cover and prepping the gasket, I went to *** ****** again at that time and explained with a random misfire code the other shop recommended replacing 3 of the 4 ignition coils i would highly recommend replacing all 4 ignition coils while we had everything open, at that time he agreed, He went to the parts store while we continued to prepare the vehicle to be put back together cleaning the intake manifold thoroughly and cleaning the intake ports of the excess rubber from the previous gasket to make sure there was a good airtight seal. *** ****** then returned with 1 of the 3 more ignition coils recommended at that time I explained to him that this may not fix the problem being that it was a random misfire you understood I recommended replacing Cylinder # 3 because that one was covered in oil and the most logical to be an issue I also explained we would replace what appeared to be the older of the remaining 3 being the other 2 looked newer were the same brand as each other and appeared they had been replaced prior. You understood at this time that it may not fix the problem because we were only replacing 2 out of the 4 recommended ignition coils on a random misfire code. He acknowledged that and understood the situation, during our conversation the Mechanic continued to fix the vehicle *** ****** went inside the Mechanic finished putting the vehicle back together replaced 2 of the 4 ignition coils and completed the services requested. We then started the vehicle and ran an additional scan on the vehicle which showed no current misfire codes. I invited *** ****** outside to show him a few things that we noticed from a visual inspection and how the vehicle was running. I explained to *** ****** what we noticed about the vehicle and recommendations at that time from a visual inspection. I started with the scan which showed no misfire codes or check engine lights, we moved to the engine which was shaking I explained that there was probably a broken engine mount, or trans mount, I then explained the exhaust sounded like there was an exhaust leak, I then showed him the rust on the brakes I explained this is only a visual inspection not a diagnostic. I did recommend replacing the brakes on the vehicle because it is a safety issue, I recommended replacing the mount to stop the engine from shaking and the exhaust leak because in the future that could affect emissions and the shaking of the engine could cause a multitude of additional issues. I also explained we tested the battery and it did have low voltage and we recommended leaving the vehicle running for a little bit to rebuild the amps in the battery, before we left I explained to *** ****** the misfire may come back being we only replaced 2 of the 4 ignition coils he understood I told him if the codes did comeback we would come back out and replace those additional coils as another service calls. I asked if he had any additional questions and if you understood everything, he stated he was good, and everything was good to go. We received payment for the services and left. We received an email later that evening stating he went out and purchased a scanner and now the vehicle reads a misfire on ignition coil 1. We then responded back to his email explaining that during the service we made multiple recommendations to replace all 4 ignition coils, but he denied doing so and we could not guarantee that the random misfire would be fixed without replacing all of those ignition coils. We offered to comeback out and replace the ignition coils for him but that would be an additional service charge because we explained to him the issues on site, and he chose not to adhere to our or another Mechanic in the industries recommendations. He felt that was unacceptable. We provided the service requested and more at no additional costs we also explained the risks of not adhering to the recommendations he understood the risks of not following through with those recommendations and had us continue with the service and knew if it didn't fix the problem we would have to come back out. We apologized that the problem wasn't fixed and offered a solution to come back out to fix it but again he wasn't accepting of that solution. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 02/23/2024

   
  Complaint: 21319502
  
  I am rejecting this response because:  For starters, I didn't know which cylinder was misfiring.  I knew there was a misfire because it has happened previously, and I know what my car feels like when it's running on three cylinders.  I didn't want to replace all four ignition coils because at the time, three of them were working properly.  I expected your employee, as the mechanic, to be able to figure out which ignition coil was bad.  After your employees left and the car was still running rough, i.e. on three cylinders, I went to *******, purchased a diagnostic tool, and ran a scan on the car.  Doing so, I was able to determine that cylinder one was causing the misfire.  If I was able to figure that out as someone who isn't a professional mechanic, why were your employees unable to do so.
  
  To reiterate, yes, I wanted to keep costs down.  With tax, each cylinder is $111.  Your recommendation is unreasonable because it requires me to pay to replace another $333 in parts that aren't currently bad.  Why would I want to do that?

  Here's the bottom line: I asked you to replace the Valve Cover Gasket and the bad ignition coil.  You failed to fix the bad ignition coil.  Instead, you replaced two working ignition coils and then didn't bother to give me the parts back.  As a result, I have to buy another ignition coil and replace it myself tomorrow.  That's flat out unacceptable.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** ******

  Business Response

  Date: 03/08/2024

  Complaint: 21319502
  

          We understand your position and accept your response to reject the offer, unfortunately it does not change the position that we are at we made recommendations that needed to be done based on a diagnostic scan of your vehicle. During the time of that scan which is a $149 fee being it is an additional service which we recommended which as well was denied being you said you knew the issue from a diagnostic that was preformed 2-3 months prior. We performed a diagnostic scan anyways at no additional charge to identify which coil was bad, during that diagnostic scan we found the vehicle had a random misfire which means one or more ignition coils or spark plugs could be bad this was the same issue another industry professional made to you months prior from which you told us, and their recommendation were to replace all 4 ignition coils or at least 1 for sure but at least 3, our recommendations were to replace all 4 ignition coils, we explained that to you on site and you agreed, you went to the parts store and returned with only some of the parts to complete the job correctly (one more ignition coil) giving us 2 out of the 4 recommended, we explained at that time this may not fix the situation you understood. Being that you did not follow through with the recommendations made by our mechanic and another mechanic at another shop we cannot be held responsible for the vehicle not running properly after we left and the misfire returning. When we left there was no check engine lights on or no signs of a misfire. After you decide to drive the vehicle without fixing the recommendations of multiple industry professionals, the check engine light came back on because the required parts to fix the job were not provided and we were unable to fix the issue properly. We change two bad ignition coils that we detected there was multiple failing ignition coils by the diagnostic you had done 2-3 months prior by another mechanic shop again stated 1 ignition coil was bad but we recommend replacing 3 of them, you continued to drive the vehicle that way for months causing more damage to the vehicle the additional strain on the motor using 3 out of the 4 cylinders caused multiple misfires being why we received a random misfire code and recommended replacing all of the ignition coils. The reason your scanner identified that ignition coil #1 was misfiring is because the other 2 ignition coils we replaced were failing as well from our diagnostic we recommended replacing all 4 being we had a random misfire and replacing 3 out of 4 leaving 1 old one on their knowing it would go bad sooner than later we recommended doing all 4 ignition coils, the ignition coils we replaced were bad being we only could replace 2 out of the 4 it left 1 luckily failing for you but it could of been 2 more bad ignition coils from your scan it was able to identify 1 bad ignition coil cylinder #1 because the other bad ignition coils had been replaced taking away the random misfire leaving only 1 to be identified which was recommended to be replaced at the time of service, you chose not to do so or were unable to get the parts needed again recommended by 2 industry professionals to complete the job correctly. So without the proper parts to complete the job correctly we cannot be held responsible for the misfire returning. As for the parts we did not take any parts with us we left them on site if I am not mistaken, I asked you if you would like us to throw them away in your trash along with the destroyed gasket or would you like to hold on to them, so they were either left with the vehicle or discarded in your trash as per your request. When a customer provides their own parts to us, we leave all parts behind. I am sorry you do not accept our offer and cost for us to come out and replace the parts recommended to fix the vehicle but again being you decided not to follow through with the recommendations made by our mechanic after preforming a diagnostic of the vehicle (free of charge) and another mechanic in the industry we cannot be held responsible for the vehicle failure after continuing to drive it without the repair recommendations being performed. We wish you the best and will gladly come preform the recommended repairs at the cost quoted to you for the service repair.

   

  Thanks,

  Auto Concepts LLC.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 03/11/2024

   
  Complaint: 21319502
  
  I am rejecting this response because: Your response is absolute nonsense.

  The other mechanic who you referenced recommended replacing three ignition coils because one was bad (causing the misfire) and the other two, he said could potentially go bad in the future due to oil leaking on them from the busted Valve Cover Gasket.  Only one was causing a misfire.  Also, the fourth was pretty much brand new. There absolutely were not three misfires.  It's preposterous that you would even suggest that.  You and your team are either incompetent or lazy.  I'm not sure which, maybe a combination of both.  The fact of the matter is you failed to replace the ignition coil causing the misfire - i.e. you failed at the job I hired you to do.

  Furthermore, since my last response, I discovered that the reason the brakes weren't working it because you guys unplugged a hose.  And guess what?  After we reattached it, the brakes magically worked.  Amazing, right? If you recall, you mentioned that my brakes looked bad and recommended changing them, which I thought was an odd comment at the time given that you had no way of checking the brake pads.  Also, the brake pad and front rotors were roughly six months old.  I'm debating whether or not to file a criminal complaint re: this specific matter.

  Either way, it's my strong belief that you are bad faith actors.  And if I need to escalate this matter further, which is looking more and more likely, I will.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  **** ******

  Business Response

  Date: 03/12/2024

  Good morning to whom this matter concerns,
     Just briefly where is this issue of the brakes coming from, we never touched the brakes or said anything more than as a visual inspection again "A visual inspection" we did not touch or look at the brake system we did not measure the brakes or do anything more than a visual inspection which was based on the rust covering the brake rotors. It was mentioned as the appeared that they may need to be serviced, it was a recommendation made by a visual inspection of a potential safety issue. Second of all if there was an issue with the brakes not working why was that not mentioned in any of the initial complaints or anytime in the emails sent over to us about the initial complaint after the service, third of all if the brakes supposedly had a hose unplugged as Mr. ****** had mentioned he would of had to have the vehicle towed to a mechanic shop where they would have had to perform a brake service refilling the fluid which would of refilled the brake lines and would have had to had a brake bleed preformed on the vehicle, if a hose which there is no hose for your breaks there are brake lines but if a break line was supposedly un plugged it would of leaked brake fluid everywhere and the vehicle would not of been drivable. Being the vehicle would have been undrivable because the brake fluid would not be in the line and the pressure requiring the brakes to actually stop the vehicle would not be present. A brake line cannot just be unplugged and just plugged back in. With that being said there was never a brake issue discussed or mentioned at any time before the visual inspection comment was made at the end of service.
      But at this point being Mr. ****** has mentioned he feels he would like to turn this into a legal matter all further correspondences will be handled by our attorneys any attempt to contact us will be passed on to them to handle the situation as they deem worthy. We thank you in advance for your understanding and hope you have a great day.
  Thanks,

  ******* ********

  Operations Manager,

  Auto Concepts