Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:08/03/2024

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  On July 24, Plumbing Care **** (PCI) agreed to replace our old water heater with a new one, with an 8-year manufacturer's warranty and a 1-year service warranty.PCI installed the new water heater, and right after the installation, the *** MANABLOC Manifold of the water system started leaking. The technician and I heard a buzzing/ rattling noise right after the water heater became operational, and he ruled it out as possibly from a bug. Later, I found a major water leak from the ********. I shut off the water mainline and contacted PCI. Regrettably, PCI did not take immediate action to resolve the problem but conveyed an estimate of $3200+ to fix it. The company's responses before the installation were prompt but became increasingly difficult to obtain after the leak. Regardless of the cause, I suggested a solution to split the costs, but I never heard back. It's been seven days without water.PCI claims they didn't cause the issue despite the leak starting right after installation. They argued that the water heater's outlet pressure would be the same as the inlet pressure, which isn't true for a water heater. PCI claimed another cause to be the opening and closing of the water valve for installation. I have closed and opened the mainline several times without experiencing any leaks over the years. PCIs argument of not touching the Manifold is baseless as the water heater is a water system component, not an isolated unit. The heater feeds hot water to the Manifold system. If the temperature and pressure of hot water entering the Manifold exceed the system's ratings, leaks will occur.The heater installation broke my Manifold. They offered no solution besides a significant estimate for the repair at my expense. I now must deal with water damage and any potential issues throughout the water plumbing system, restore water, and possibly replace a faulty heater. I am deeply disappointed with PCI's poor business ethics and terrible customer service.

  Business Response

  Date: 08/04/2024

  The issue customer is having is in no way related to any work completed by Plumbing Care, Inc. We cannot be liable for something we did not cause and have explained in great detail to the customer. He is welcome to refer back to our prior statements and information provided to him. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/04/2024

   
  Complaint: 22089164
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  The claims of the business are untrue, and I have in great detail responded to the business the reasons as to why each and every one of their claims are indeed false. The problem started right after the installation of the water heater was completed and the heater went operational. The leak started while the technician was present, and the technician ruled it out the buzzing/ ratting sound from the Manifold, behind the door as a possible buzzing from a bug. ******** started leaking profusely due to the pressure and temperature from the water heater later causing a flood of water in the garage and the walls around the Manifold making it visible.  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  Suvain Ayyappan

  Business Response

  Date: 08/05/2024

  As we explained to this Customer previously, installation of a new hot water heater has absolutely nothing to do with a ***************** System leaking. The fact that it's almost 20 years old, they are known to leak at the o-rings at the branch lines if they are turned off and on after an extended period of time AND the fact that he has at least 90 psi water pressure coming into his house are what he needs to be focusing on. We told him at the time we quoted the water heater replacement, that he needed a new *** and gave him an estimate for that as well. Over the course of several days, this Customer went back & forth with our Owner, ******, over the pricing and ****** even offered him a very discounted package deal to include the *** replacement. Ultimately we ended up installing the new water heater for a deeply discounted price. Here is the original correspondence I emailed to this Customer in response to his complaint:

  "Good ****************,
  
  My name is ****, I'm the Field Operations Manager here at Plumbing Care, Inc. I've been in the Plumbing Industry for over 30 years. I ran a New Construction Plumbing Company for 20 years, a Service Plumbing Company for over 11 years and now here at Plumbing Care, Inc. I'm sharing that with you so that you can get an idea of my experience in the Plumbing Industry. The New Construction Plumbing Company I ran was actually one of the first Plumbing Contractors in the Bay Area to install the Manabloc Manifolds, the *** system that you have in your home. While we absolutely understand your frustration with your current situation, ****** was correct, replacing and/or installing a water heater, with or without an expansion tank, has nothing to do with the failure of your Manabloc Manifold nor can it in any way cause an issue with it. Yes, a water heater is a component to your domestic water system, which consists of both hot & cold water lines, however, your water heater has no bearing and/or effect on your Manabloc Manifold. A newly installed water heater has the same pressure inside of it as the pressure in the cold water that's feeding it. Your new water heater wasn't set to a temperature any hotter than the existing water heater that it replaced. Your statement, "clear that the plumbing system and *** manifold broke because of the new water heater and expansion tank" is simply not accurate.
  
  You state yourself that your Manabloc Manifold is at least 19 years old. Those systems will and do wear out over time and use. While there are many factors that can come into play with the failing of the Manabloc Manifold, the condition of the water in your home, the water pressure coming into your home, the o-rings on the manifold branches drying out, etc., installing a water heater is not one of those factors. The Technician who was originally onsite made you aware that you have high water pressure coming into your home, it was reading at 90 psi. The recommended psi for a Residence is between 60 - 70 psi and anything 90 psi or above is considered very high and can even void most warranties on faucets, shower valves and other systems inside of your home, such as your Manabloc Manifold System. As additional iniformation, the Manufacturer's Warranty on the Manabloc Manafold System is 10 years, your system being at least 9 years out of warranty. Our Technician made you aware of your high water pressure issue, we even provided you with an estimate to replace your existing *** at a significantly discounted rate since we were providing an estimate for the water heater as well, and we strongly suggested that you replace the *** as the incoming psi to your Residence was extremely high and could cause damage to your fixtures and/or systems. You chose not to have us replace the ***.
  
  I took it upon myself to contact Viega, the manufacturer of the ***************** Systems and spoke to ***** from Technical Support. I explained your situation, that you have a Manabloc Manifold that is approximately 19 years old, that we removed & replaced your existing water heater, and that you have 90 psi coming into your Residence. I told him that your manifold started leaking when we turned the water back onto the system and asked him what could have caused that. His answer was that it was either the fact that the o-rings on the manifold branches, there are four on each branch, get dried out over time and can leak or it is most likely the fact that you have 90 psi coming into your Residence which is much higher than the recommended maximum operating psi for the Manabloc Manifold System. He also confirmed what I looked up about the warranty on your system being 10 years and further explained that the life expectancy on Manabloc Manifolds is no more than 20 years.
  
  As I stated previously, we understand your frustration with the fact that your Manabloc Manifold System is leaking. Again, the installation of a water heater in no way caused that Manabloc to leak. As for us not communicating with you, ******, the Owner of Plumbing Care, Inc. has spoken to you several times explaining the facts and offering you a solution for replacing the existing Manabloc Manifold. The price he quoted you is a very reasonable price for that scope of work. All of the work we have offered you and provided you has been very reasonable. After multiple discussions with you, we discounted the water heater installation by almost $600. While it is apparent that you have it in your mind that a water heater installation caused your manifold to leak, it is simply not the case. The solution to replace the existing manifold and get your water restored offered by ****** is the best that we can offer at this time. I would encourage you to check with other Service Providers to see if they can offer a cheaper solution. Thank you for your time.
  
  Thank you,
  *********************
  Plumbing Care, Inc."

  As you can. see in my response, I did reach out to the Manufacturer, spoke to the ********************* They agreed that replacing a water heater would in no be the cause of the Manibloc leaking. This is a Customer who believes that they are versed in the way Plumbing Systems work but is clearly mistaken and refuses to listen to logical explanations. As always, thank you for your time and assistance with this matter.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/06/2024

   
  Complaint: 22089164
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  As I previously explained to the Business at length, installing the new hot water heater started the MANABLOC Manifold System leaking. The leak started right after the water heater installation.
  
  The argument around 90 PSI and *** replacement is irrelevant to this discussion, as the water pressure did not change before or after the installation. The pressure and temperature from the water heater caused the Manifold to leak right after the installation. The only thing that changed in my water system was the installation of the replacement water heater.With everything remaining the same, including the **** the new installation caused the Manifold in the water system to break, and the business does not want to take responsibility. Instead, they devise various excuses not to accept what they are responsible for.
  
  It's a straightforward matter: If this business hadnt installed the water heater, my water system would not have been damaged.
  
  Im unsure how the pricing is relevant to this discussion. The estimate was given on Tuesday, 7/23, and the work started the very next day (7/24). As the business falsely claims, there was no going back and forth on the price over days. The quote was given verbally over the phone as $2000 for the water heater installation and $2500 for the water heater installation with ****and the *** could be installed later. I went with the water heater installation for $2000, a standard installation price for a water heater these days. There was no haggling on the pricing, and I went with the price they gave. I did ask for a water heater with an 8-year warranty as opposed to a 6-year warranty. The so-called discounted price the business is referring to has cost me $2000 + Manifold replacement cost fix (the business quoted me $2500 for this and $750 with a 10%discount) for changing ***) + water damage + potential damage to other system components that I dont know of for an installation that went wrong. Again, Im not referring to the wear and tear of the water system, but the damage caused by the new water heater. Not to mention the nightmare we have been through without water in the household for 7 days!
  
  Below is the correspondence I emailed to the Business in response to their efforts to evade the problem caused by the installation:
  
  Good to know your plumbing background and experience, ****. Explain why the Manifold started leaking immediately after the new water heater was hooked up, the water and gas were turned on, and the heater became operational. I dont think you understood when I said the Manifold started leaking with a buzzing/ rattling sound, which the technician ruled out as a potential bug making that noise without even checking. You say my statement, "clear that the plumbing system and *** manifold broke because of the new water heater and expansion tank," is not true. And you imply the Manifold decided to break right when we swapped the old water heater.Is it a sheer coincidence? You seem logical, but does this even sound logical to you?
  
  Yes, a water heater is a component of the water system, and it is not an isolated unit like I mentioned earlier. When it is a system component, how can you say it has no bearing on the system as a whole or another component, while the water heater directly feeds hot water into the Manifold?
  
  I'm afraid I have to disagree with you and ******. Let me explain why the pressure would rise with a new water heater.You argue that the water heater has the same pressure inside as the pressure of the cold water being fed to it; there shouldnt be any change in pressure in the water system, right? That would have been the case if it was just a water tank. The inlet and outlet pressure would be the same for a simple water tank,assuming the inlet and outlet are at the same height. But that is not the case here.We are talking about a water tank that is being heated. You know, with increasing temperature, the pressure rises, right? You dont need to take my word for it. Basic thermodynamics. This is how pressure cookers you use for cooking work. You can consult thermodynamics experts as required. You said the temperature was the same as the old heater. Well, it wasnt. After the installation, the water was scalding hot, and I had to reduce it to a much lower setting. With the old water, even the highest setting had no impact on the water system. We also heard two loud booming/ popping sounds within the first ***** minutes of the new heater installation, and I ruled those out as thermal expansion tanks. I would have notified you if the noise persisted. We are unsure if the boom/ pop came from the heater or the MANABLOC as we were inside the home.  Im even worried if the impact is limited to the MANABLOC manifold, the entire water system, and water distribution, especially hot water channels. Only after I restore the water will I know the extent of the damage and where all the leaks will show up. I turned off the water as water was profusely leaking from the manifold.
  
  The main reasons for sudden water leaks in the MANABLOC manifold are high pressure and temperatures. The age,**ring, etc., valves are sure factors, but remember, the manifold didnt leak by itself. This is clearly because of the high temperature and the pressure exerted by the water heater, which happened the minute the new water heater was put in place, as evident from the buzzing/rattling sound around the manifold that the technician and I heard.
  
  Yes, the manifold was 19 years old and had no issues or leaks before installing the new water heater. I have closed and re-opened the main water line several times with varied pressure with no problems or leaks to my water system with the old water heater. Are you saying all the factors, such as the water pressure, the **rings, and the manifold branches drying out, all happened between the water and gas shutoff for the new water heater installation and suddenly turning off the gas and water? Did the **ring and manifold branches dry out, and those items decide to give up while installing the water heater? We know the pressure didnt change externally in the waterline before or after the installation. The only pressure change came from within the water system in the home with the new water heater in it.
  
  I'm sure you know the facts and details of the external water pressure.
  
  Water pressure :: East Bay Municipal Utility District (ebmud.com)
  The City of ************** follows the California Plumbing Code for water pressure regulations. According to the code, the water pressure in residential areas should typically be between 40 and 80 psi (pounds per square inch). If the pressure exceeds 80 psi, a pressure-reducing valve is required to be installed.
  We do have a ***. If your pressure gauge reads a 90, it's possible either the pressure gauge is not calibrated correctly, the pressure-reducing value is not adjusted correctly, or the valve is malfunctioning altogether. No matter what, the pressure did not change externally, and it is a moot point. Your technicians argument about not limiting the waterline pressure from outside doesnt make sense, as it did not change before or after the water heater installation. The external water system pressure remained the same before and after the water heater. The water system handled the external water pressure well for 19 years and would have continued without a single issue. Is that a coincidence, you say? Whether you acknowledge it or not, everything was fine until the new water heater entered the water system with increased temperature and pressure and caused havoc. Im not talking about normal wear and tear here.
  There was no strong suggestion to change *** other than including the *** would cost an additional $500, which I opted out of due to budgetary restrictions I had. I would change the *** later,as the installation cost exceeded my current budget. The *** could be done later, is what I was told. As I said earlier, it's a moot point since the external line pressure is not even a factor here. If the water pressure and temperature due to the new water heater had not changed, there wouldnt have been any issues with the water system. Nothing changed in the water system except the water heater! The water system and the MANABLOC were working fine with the 90 PSI pressure with the old heater in the system, and if the new water heater had not changed the pressure and temperature, it wouldnt have caused the leak in the MANABLOC.
  
  There were no multiple discussions regarding the cost either. ****** said $2000 for the water heater and expansion tank and $2500 to include ***. I asked if I could get an 8-year warranty model,HUR-50-450, and he said, Okay. There was no haggling for prices from my side or shopping around. In my mind, I was going with a local plumbing business. I could have gone with a local plumber or big chain stores if I wanted a cheaper option. I considered giving my business to a local business with a good rating,but boy, was I wrong in finding a solid business that stands by their words and walks the talk! ****** indirectly dissuaded me from applying for a permit as he mentioned only 95% of customers dont go for a permit, and its only a way for the city to make some money. I plan to apply for the permit; per ******,everything should be by the code. The effective cost of the water heater ****** imposed on me is over $5000, and you say its a great price?
  
  These are your terms and conditions,and you have not stood by yours. By the way, the numbering scheme below is yours and not mine.
  
  ?1. Basically pay for the work being done & dont bounce checks.
  
  I paid the amount in full right after the work, and you also cashed the check.
  
  ?2. Well do the work we say well do
  
  No, you did not complete the work.Sure, you replaced the water heater but didnt fix what it broke. You didnt even honor your one-year warranty. I want to know what is covered by your one-year warranty. Forget about any follow-*** to ensure the water system's standard pressure and temperature post-installation; the issue I reported is being ruled out as not due to the water heater when the leak started right after the water and gas were turned on. How ridiculous can it get? The current pressure is 0 psi, and the water temperature is nonexistent as there is no water!
  
  ? 3. We wont give out any of your information
  
  This is a standard privacy law that all businesses must honor. Otherwise, they will lose most of their customers.
  
  ? 4. Confirm your satisfaction with our work
  
  Thoroughly dissatisfied with your work.
  
  ? 3.Call us if any issues so we can take care of it
  I did, and all I received was a poor response and an attempt to cover up issues. No solution came out, and my household has had no water for almost a week now! The so-called taking care of the solution would cost me $3000+ because of an issue the water heater caused.Plus, I should deal with the water leak damage and our nightmare with the water heater installation. Regardless of the problem, I tried to meet in the middle,and you continued to ***** off your responsibility despite me telling you the leak started immediately after the water and gas to the water heater were turned on. The technician ignored the warning and said it was probably a bug buzzing around that area.
  
  ? 4. If unforeseen or unknown damages are found, there may be a change order
  
  I believe this covers any unexpected work that you initially estimated or anticipated during the installation and not for issues caused by the water heater installation itself.
  
  ? 5. AND LASTLY BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY Dont bad-mouth us. Give us a chance. Well take care of you
  
  Is this to continue with bad business practices and get excellent ratings for the business for poorly handled jobs?Im sure things go well for businesses mostly; however, when their work causes problems, thats the real test for any business in handling the problem. I do not intend to badmouth Plumbing Care **** or any business, for that matter.However, I do not want other customers to be in the same place I am. Its a disservice to other customers who go by the rating system like I do to check how good a business is if I dont share my experience. I did give you a chance to do the right thing, and you did nothing besides sending an additional estimate of over $3000 for a job that went wrong. I go to a professional plumbing business, so I can count on getting a job well done, not for a nightmare. I was reasonable in meeting in the middle, and you did not even acknowledge it besides continuing to cover up your mistakes with flawed logic when the water system was working fine until the new heater was put in place,causing the leak to happen immediately after.
  
  It's great that you called up Vanguard/ Viega. When you called the manufacturer, did you ask them for the specifications of the *** Manifold? Did you also ask them about the potential causes of the MANABLOC Manifold leaks? Did you also tell them you installed the water heater before the manifold started leaking? The external water pressure on the line remained the same before and after the installation. Yet, they said it was due to the **ring and the distribution branches drying out over time during the few hours the installation was done, the **ring aged, and the branches dried out. Really? Can you have them provide that in writing?
  
  Here are the specifications for the *** manifold per its manual:
  
  Components utilized in the MANABLOC plumbing system consist of
  Vanguard Vanex *** cross-linked polyethylene tubing is produced to ASTM F876/F877 standards, fixture transition fittings, water service swivel connections, compression port connection, and the MANABLOC control unit, Vanguard Vanex *** temperature and Pressure Ratings:
  
   180 F at 100 psi
   73.4 F at 160 psi
  
  Did you also call the water heater manufacturer? Even below the lowest setting, the new water heater produces a temperature of 120 degrees Fahrenheit, as measured by a ***** thermometer. This is by no means normal! The water was scalding hot after the installation to the point that you didnt even have to turn the k*** to the hot side.
  
  You dont have to be a business owner to know that work ethics and listening to customers are important. Issues happen when you run a business, and how you deal with them makes all the difference. Its not always about money. ****** neither offered a solution nor communicated directly. The last I heard from ******, *****, and ****** is that it would cost me $3000+ to fix the manifold for a part that I dont know you have whether what I proposed as a reasonable solution in me covering the parts for the manifold work and you covering the labor and me paying for the *** parts and labor. Its over my budget to replace a water tank, yet I suggested a fair solution with my current budgetary restrictions. ****** did not explain any solution or how it could be addressed besides that his technicians who could do the work were unavailable, and then he became unreachable. *****, who was going to check with ******, never got back to me. Now, its past any solution discussion with Plumbing Care ****, as I know how they conduct business. You will fix my manifold; the next thing I know, I must rewire the entire water system unless its already broken with the new water heater. I have lost my trust in Plumbing Care **** with its expertise and handling of genuine customer issues. I would like to hear what you include in the 1-year warranty you offered for the service I paid for. I waited long enough for you to take any action. There was nothing from you besides covering up an obvious problem.
  
  No! You do not understand my frustration or the letdown feeling. If you want to understand, turn off the waterline in your household for a week. Try calling a local plumbing company to get your water heater replaced. Replacing the water heater, let them break your water system with increased pressure and temperature from the heater, and let the business not even acknowledge it. Instead of businesses owning up to the problem and looking into why it happened, let them find excuses and turn them into business opportunities at the customers' expense. Pay over a cost of $5000 and counting for a mere water heater installation, the hassles, and a business that doesnt follow up after an installation, doesnt ensure the water temperature and pressure from the heating unit is per the safety standards, and try and do everything possible for a leak caused by the heater installation that started right after the installation and the so-called plumbing experts coming up with excuses. You probably will then understand my frustration.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***************