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BBB Accredited Business since
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This company manages information technology for businesses, including on-site and off-site technical support services for user devices and software, ISP hosting and connectivity services, computer networking and security, phone, and VoIP services.
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A BBB Accredited Business since
BBB has determined that 5NINES meets BBB accreditation standards, which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints. BBB Accredited Businesses pay a fee for accreditation review/monitoring and for support of BBB services to the public.
BBB accreditation does not mean that the business' products or services have been evaluated or endorsed by BBB, or that BBB has made a determination as to the business' product quality or competency in performing services.
Reason for Rating
BBB rating is based on 13 factors. Get the details about the factors considered.
Factors that raised the rating for 5NINES include:
- Length of time business has been operating
- Complaint volume filed with BBB for business of this size
- Response to 1 complaint(s) filed against business
- Resolution of complaint(s) filed against business
Customer Complaints Summary Read complaint details
|Complaint Type||Total Closed Complaints|
|Problems with Product/Service||1|
|Total Closed Complaints||1|
Customer Reviews Summary Read customer reviews
|Customer Experience||Total Customer Reviews|
|Total Customer Reviews||0|
Type of Entity
Limited Liability Company (LLC)
Business ManagementMr. Todd R. Streicher, President
Information Technology Services VOIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol) Sales & Service Data Recovery Computers - Disaster Recovery Computers - Networks Computers - Service & Repair Computers - Sys Designers & Consult Data Processing Equipment - Maintenance Data Systems - Consultants & Designers Internet Services Data Communications Equipment & Systems Internet - Web Hosting Internet-Based Telephone Service Computers - Security Equip & Systems Computers - Network Security Computer Consultant Wired Telecommunications Carriers (NAICS: 517110)
Alternate Business Names5NINES llc
Industry TipsFraud - TTY and TDD Services Being Used to Defraud Businesses Laptop Security
222 W Washington Ave
Madison, WI 53703 (608) 512-1027 (608) 512-1000 Directions
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BBB Complaint Process
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Additional Phone Numbers
- (608) 512-1027(Phone)
Additional Email Addresses
Complaint Trends - Last 3 Years
Customer Review Trends
BBB Customer Review Rating plus BBB Rating Overview
BBB Customer Reviews Rating represents the customers opinions of the business. The Customer Review Rating is based on the number of positive, neutral and negative customer reviews posted that are calculated to produce a score.
|Customer Review Experience||Value|
|Positive Review||5 points per review|
|Neutral Review||3 points per review|
|Negative Review||1 point per review|
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Problems with Product/Service
Read Complaint Details
Complaint: The small non-profit organization named ********** ******** that I ran had contracted with 5Nines to host our servers. As we discussed doing so, we met with their top management and explained that our key business activity was to allow global citizens to send protest emails to global leaders. It was shared that those opposed to our work may lodge false claims that we were "spamming" them, when in fact we are just enabling democratic exchange of viewpoints. We were assured that this would not be problematic. After over 2 years of running our online protest network with 5Nines, we received notice that we could no longer continue enabling others to send protest emails, because their had been a complaint. We explained in detail that it was a false accusation, meant to have our email action network stopped. It was never represented to us that this had not been escalated to their management. We were told to stop sending emails and we did. For several months we sought out alternative means of sending such emails, but our inability to do so led to the non-profit organization going bankrupt and going out of business. As we notified them we would no longer be co-locating our servers because we had gone out of business, 5Nines confiscated our servers because we still had some month's of contracted co-location.
Desired Settlement: We want our computer equipment back. 5Nines changed their terms of service and then took our equipment when it put us out of business. Though ********** ******** no longer exists, I will pay personally the about $500 owed on our account. Be we cannot pay the about $1200 they claim we owe them for cancelling early in order to get
I've read through the complaint and its desired resolution; after discussion with our team, we find Dr. *****'s arguments unpersuasive, and several being factually incorrect and without merit. For your records, find attached as exhibit A, a .pdf of the ticket thread that Dr. ***** opened, requesting his colocation service be terminated and his hardware returned. Exhibit B is a .pdf output of a previous abuse complaint, opened by our support staff in response to a call received from a systems operator.
If you are able to review these support transactions, I think you'll likely find the following points to be substantiated:
-- 5NINES reiterated its abuse and spam policy, and its staff did not engage in subjectively judging the particular nature of the complaint, reacting solely to the material effects relayed to us from external third parties, these being the actual targets of the claimed network and email abuse.
-- 5NINES explained to the client that it would be taking no actions as a result of the complaint, and it requested the client resolve the issue with the target network itself.
-- 5NINES in no way engages the client by advising what specific actions it should take in responding to the abuse complaint, other than to warn the client of the situation and the remedies available if network abuse continues.
-- 5NINES did not receive any follow-up to the spam complaint from Dr. *****, and continued to provide contracted colocation and Internet access services to ********** ********s' computer and server equipment,
-- 5NINES did not receive requests to clarify its terms and conditions, nor requests for managerial review, or any other form of normative escalation or dispute resolution from Dr. *****.
-- 5NINES at no time disrupted or materially impacted the clients services, despite having received and relayed to ********** ******** multiple abuse and spam complaints.
-- 5NINES at no time operated outside of normal, expected, "good faith" negotiations in addressing this matter.
-- Dr. ***** has not acted in good faith during these negotiations, as evidenced by communications with 5NINES support staff.
-- Dr. ***** has communicated his willingness to engage in retaliatory actions, and has issued threats in previous support ticket interactions
-- Dr. ***** has posted several "Twitter" and "Facebook" messages, containing statements that are generally of a misleading, disparaging, and derogatory nature about this situation.
Based on these points and facts, 5NINES declines to accept the proposed resolution tendered by the complainant, and asserts that the outstanding amount representing an early contact termination fee is justified, in addition to withholding certain performance, as described in section 6.2 of our standard terms and conditions document, and reiterated and explained to Dr. ***** in exhibit A.
A link to that document is here: ***************************************************************************************
5NINES has reviewed the follow-up message received from the WIBBB on 8/5/2014. In this letter, ********** ******** (the client) asserts: "I was told by 5NINES to discontinue sending emails through my servers which are colocated with them." This is incorrect and not factual. 5NINES communications specifically addressed network abuse, and support staff ticket transactions between 5NINEs and ********** ******** demonstrate this. 5NINES advised ********** ******** that if the company was unable to resolve and avoid future abuse complaints, then 5NINES may be forced to take actions to limit damages incurred by ********** ********s activities. To be clear, 5NINES took no actions to materially prevent ********** ******** from sending of electronic mail, and did not modify or prevent the Internet service from transporting electronic mail. 5NINES staff also advised that we would be taking no actions, and the client did receive this advisory message.
********** ********, in their response, goes on to assert: "I was thus unable to continue my business activities and was forced to dissolve my non-profit." It's unclear to us why this statement is included in the complaint, as this outcome is not related to 5NINES's acceptable use policies, abuse handling policies, or other aspects of 5NINES's business relationship with ********** ********. How a client uses services rendered by 5NINES is not the business of 5NINES, nor related to our performance.
********** ******** goes on to state that: "5NINES has not made reasonable attempts to resolve the matter and has stolen my servers." This statement is false -- prior support ticket transactions show 5NINES had explained and detailed the applicable terms of the agreement that the client had signed. The client also knew that early termination, for any causes not disclaimed in the agreement, would result in 50% payment due upon termination. The client also knew that failure to pay monthly or termination fees would permit 5NINES to exercise certain rights to withhold performance; in this case, that withheld performance includes prohibiting the customer access to collocated equipment, disabling Internet access, and disabling electrical power access.
Lastly, the client closes by asserting "This is unacceptable business practices." Within the hosting industry, early termination fees and customer equipment escrow is a normal, standard practice -- thousands of customers agree to and hundreds of providers include these terms, primarily to protect the provider, given the relatively transient nature of hosting services and computing services in the modern Internet services market. That ********** ******** asserts this represents an "unacceptable business practice" suggests that there is a fundamental misunderstanding of industry normative contractual practices, as well as suggests 5NINES is somehow ultimately, and singularly responsible for this company having been "forced to dissolve." 5NINES cannot accept responsibility for a clients misunderstandings or misinterpretations of contract terms, nor can 5NINES accept responsibility for clients misunderstandings, when the client has not asserted that 5NINES had somehow materially misrepresented, hid, or mislead the client about the application or meaning of its contracts.
5NINES cannot accept the clients original offer of $600 payment on the owed termination amount. 5NINES, of course, is open to any other arguments which have not be tendered by client here. Such an argument could include items like the following:
-There is substantial information that suggests 5NINES's understanding of industry norms is mistaken, or its application of these norms is aberrant
-The vast majority of colocation providers do not require or negotiate early termination fees, and 5NINES is alone in imposing them
-5NINES's termination fees are too high, extortive in application, or unlawful under Wisconsin statutes, or the contracts basis is unlawful
-Any other aspect (termination limits, remedies, etc) of the contract provided by 5NINES is unlawful under Wisconsin statutes
-Prior examples of abuse complaints not handled in this manner or handled in a different manner (suggesting wrongly punitive, discriminatory, or other unlawful actions were taken by 5NINES)
To date, 5NINES has not received an argument or statement which articulates or asserts a claim to negate the early contract termination fees assessed.
Better Business Bureau:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
5Nine clearly stated that if I continued my business practices of sending protest emails to public figures - something their management had approved me doing - and someone complained, that I would lose my co-location. This had a chilling effect upon my business and made it impossible to continue. ********** ******** has thus been dissolved. They have shown an amazing unwillingness to honor their written and verbal agreements, and I am told they have frequently abused non-profits in this manner. I retain all legal options.
Dr. **** *****