Complaint Category: None of the Above - Service Complaint Issue
Complaint: After leaving multiple voice mail messages regarding my overflowing gutters, LeafGuard offered to send a service representative to my residence to correct the issue. I was informed that I would receive a phone call between 8am and 9am to set up the call. I was not called. When I finally spoke to a representative I was told that she was filling three positions and was very busy. After calling the main office in Texas I was called and the excuse was that they called the previous owners phone number. I was informed that they were going to come and do the work "some time."
Initial Business Response LeafGuard Northwest, Inc. ("LeafGuard") acknowledges that there were communication issues between the consumer and LeafGuard, and LeafGuard is sorry for any inconvenience that consumer experienced because of those communication issues. However, some of the communication issues were due to LeafGuard not being informed that the consumer was not the customer that actually purchased the LeafGuard gutter system from LeafGuard. As the consumer acknowledged in his complaint, LeafGuard tried to contact the prior owner (actual purchaser) to coordinate the service work. The original contract allows for the transfer of the limited warranty. But, if the information regarding a change in ownership is not passed to LeafGuard, our database will have only have the information of the original purchaser of the LeafGuard gutter system. This was the situation in this case. Neither the original purchaser nor the consumer had contacted LeafGuard, until there was the recent issue, of the change in ownership. Consequently, there was some delay caused by the confusion of who we should contact. Yet, this was only part of the reason of a delay. Once the confusion was cleared, we scheduled a service appointment for September 3, 2013. Unfortunately, due to the service jobs taking longer than expected on September 3rd, we could not perform the service at the consumer's home until the next day, September 4th. It has been a month since we completed the service on September 4th, and we have not heard that there were any continuing issues related to the LeafGuard gutter system. So, we believe that all of the issues have been resolved and consider this matter closed. Again, we apologize for any inconvenience suffered by the consumer due to the communication confusions.
Final Consumer Response (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) LeafGuard is almost impossible to get in contact with. Most telephone contacts go either unanswered or pushed to an answering service. After leaving messages with the answering service the calls are not responded to.
It is not my fault that LeafGuard has poor communication practices, the appointment was set 6 weeks after the incomplete work was identified. After trying for several weeks to contact LeafGuard. I provided multiple contact sources after I informed LeafGuard that I was going to be in Afghanistan, where I still am located.
LeafGuard continues to be unimpressive with their customer service and lack of communication.
Final Business Response In his second rebuttal, the Consumer complains that LeafGuard has not been responsive with its communication with him. We do not believe that the Consumer's complaint is completely accurate. Yet, we do and have acknowledged that there has been communication issues associated with this matter. However, as we have previously responded, there have been communication issues from both sides. Initially, we had the lack of correct contact information regarding the Consumer because he was not the customer who actually purchased the LeafGuard gutter system from us. Second, when we did get correct, contact information for the Consumer, we would leave him messages, but we would not get a call back. We ultimately found a phone number for the Consumer's wife and contacted her to schedule a second service call, which was accomplished back on October 26, 2013, after we learned that the problem was not rectified during the service call in September 2013.
As noted in the Consumer's rebuttal(s), the problem (overflowing of the gutters) that we believed were corrected in September 2013 was not completely correct. When we made the second service call on October 26, 2013, we found that the gutters were not clogged. So, this was eliminated as the source of why the gutters were overflowing. Our service technician presented the Consumer's wife with multiple possible options as how to resolve the problems with the gutters overflowing. However, because the Consumer was out-of-country the time of the second service call, the Consumer's wife could not advise as to what option to proceed with. Between the time of the service call on October 26th and now, we have reached out to the Consumer's wife on a number of occasions to see how she and/or her husband want to proceed. To date, we still have not been giving any guidance by the Consumer and/or his wife, potentially this maybe due to the Consumer still being out-of-country.
While admittedly there have been communication issues, we have tried to overcome those issues. We again apologize for any inconvenience the Consumer has sustained because of the communication issues. However, we have tried to correct the problems that maybe associated with the LeafGuard gutter system. And, we will continue to do so. Yet, at this time, we need some input from the Consumer.
Complaint Resolution: Company resolved the complaint issues, but not within the Bureau's timeframe. The Complainant did not acknowledged acceptance to BBB.
Complaint Category: Repairs resulted in additional damage
Complaint: I was having issues with the gutters on the back of my house so I had LeafGuard come out and check to see if it was possible to fix the leak issue by installing new gutters. The estimator told me repeatly that yes installing new gutters would eliminate my problem. I asked him a couple of times if I should wait first and have the roof fixed and he said no, the new gutters would fix the leaking problem due to the way the gutters are installed. Well they still leak and even worse now than with the old gutters. I have tried to resolve this with numerous phone calls only to be told it isn't their issue that my roof is bad and it doesn't matter that I was told the new gutters would fix the problem. I don't think the new gutters should have been installed since they knew this was going to happen. I took out a loan for $4500.oo to pay for these gutters and I feel like I've wasted my money. My yard is flooding because of this, the old gutters didn't flood my yard.
Initial Business Response Unfortunately, LeafGuard cannot agree with the consumer regarding the problems she cites in her complaint. As a start, LeafGuard does not agree that there is any problem with the LeafGuard gutter system leaking. When LeafGuard investigate the consumer's complaint, we found no evidence that the LeafGuard system was not operating correctly. Instead, we found that the issue that the consumer is experiencing has to do with the roof itself over the covered patio and nothing to do with the LeafGuard gutter system. Even the consumer states in her complaint that the problem she is experiencing pre-existed the installation of the LeafGuard gutter system. Based on LeafGuard's investigation of the problem, we concluded that the problem was localized to the roofing system on the covered patio. The roofing system on the covered patio has very, little slope (low-slope). Typically, a contractor who installs roofs on a portion of a home that has a low-slope will not use composite shingles. Yet, in this case, the contractor who did put the roof on the covered patio used composite shingles. Consequently, some of the water when it tries to roll off the roof into the gutter system ends up being wicked under the shingles, causing roof damage, instead of all of the water running into the gutter system. The damage seemed to concentrate approximately five feet from the roof edge. Damage five from the roof edge would not have anything to do with a gutter system, no matter if it is a LeafGuard gutter system or any other gutter system, as was obvious by the consumer stating that the problem pre-existed the installation of the LeafGuard gutter system. When we discussed the matter with the consumer's representative at the time of our investigation, he understood that the problem was not related to the LeafGuard gutter system and was associated with the way the roofing materials on the covered patio. The consumer states that the LeafGuard sales representative told her that the installation of a LeafGuard gutter system would solve her roof problem. This is incorrect. The LeafGuard's sales representative denies ever telling the customer that a LeafGuard gutter system would solve her problem. Once again, the consumer's problem is related to the type of roofing material (composite shingles) that was put on her low-slope covered patio and not the gutter system, LeafGuard or otherwise. In an interest of customer service and according to LeafGuard's philosophy of trying to take care of our customers, LeafGuard has looked into and attempted to fix the consumer's problem with the covered patio roof, despite the problem not being related to the LeafGuard gutter system. We have installed additional flashing. But, unfortunately, this did not resolve the problem. The consumer states that her contractor stated the problem could be fixed at a cost of $500.00. We do not see how the current roof problem could be nor has LeafGuard seen anything to support what the potential fix would be, nevertheless what the cost would be. When LeafGuard investigated the claim, there was no mention of the consumer's yard flooding. Also, as noted above, the consumer's problem is that some of the water gets wicked underneath the composite shingles versus running into the gutter system. In other words, the water stays on the roof and does not get to the consumer's yard. So, LeafGuard does not know how or why there would be a flooding issue. Again, when we investigate the claim, the LeafGuard gutter system was operating correctly. Once more, we do not see how the consumer's problem with her low-sloped roof is anyway related to the LeafGuard gutter system we installed. LeafGuard did not promise the consumer that the LeafGuard gutter system would correct the problems with the low-sloped roof having composite shingles. Additionally, we have no information that would indicate that the consumer's roof problem could be fixed for a cost of $500.00. While LeafGuard often goes beyond what we are required to do to assist our customers, we cannot just give our customers money to fix a problem unrelated to our LeafGuard gutter system, especially when there is no information to support that the money would actually fix the problem. Consequently, we regrettably have to deny the consumer's request and consider this matter closed.
Final Consumer Response (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) LeafGuard does know there is a problem with the LeafGuard gutter system leaking because when **** who is the estimator came out he acknowledged that the roof was sloped odd and that the current gutter system was ruining the roof. We told him yes we know, should we fix it somehow first and then call back. He told us no, that the new gutters would fix the problem. **** and I asked him at least 3 times if we should wait and he stated 3 times, no we will fix the problems. He even, just to clear our conscience took lots of pictures of the roof being ruined so we could compare how well it would fix itself after the new gutters were installed. **** and I did tell **** that the ONLY reason we would want to replace those particular gutters is to stop the ruining of our roof and he guaranteed us LeafGuard would do this. In LeafGuards responsed they even acknowled that "we found that the issue that the consumer is experiencing has to do with the roof itself over the covered patio and nothing to do with the LeafGuard gutter system". So, my question is this - Why would they installed new gutters on a roof knowling that they would not work due to the slope of the roof?? If I had known this I would have never agreed to installed such new expensive gutters rather I would have fixed the old problem instead. I am not the professional roof installer here, they are suppose to be the professionals. Their response of "The roofing system on the covered patio has very, little slope (low-slope)" therefore I would think they would refuse to install the gutters then until the problem was fixed.. Yes I did say the the gutters leaked prior to the new gutters otherwise why would I want new gutters to solve the problem. Yes **** did tell both **** and I the leaking problem would be fixed with the new gutters. He even took pictures of the old damaged roof to prove the new gutters would fix the problem. He said when it warms up, spray with bleach to get rid of the mold and whola the new gutters would never do this to the roof again. As far as a contractor fixing the problem, I don't care who hires the contractor, Leafguard is sounding a little fishy when the state "there is no information to support that the money would actually fix the problem." Are they saying I'm lying???? I reread my statement and don't recall stating a cost to fix, are they confusing my claim with someone else's claim? Yes I did have a contractor look at it and yes he did say it could be fixed. They could call him or another contractor I don't really care. Except now I'm getting a little upset and am feeling they are creating a hostile and imitating situation for me and my anxiety is up and I'm not feeling so well about all this. Why would they not want to help instead of creating hurt and fear. Yes I did mention my yard flooding you can come look at it the next time it rains and see the damage it is creating. My old gutters did not do this. My old gutters just leaked a little, they new gutters are drippig water from between the roof and gutter itself. Just give me my old gutters back, reimburse my money and we can call it done. I'm not feeling comfortable about the statement of leafguard it is making my stomach hurt and I'm crying just trying to write this. They are not being very nice to their consumer and this is just not right. They state "when we investigate the claim, the LeafGuard gutter system was operating correctly" when did they do this? If they know this "the consumer's problem is that some of the water gets wicked underneath the composite shingles versus running into the gutter system" Then why would they not want to make it right. And yes again, **** did promise **** and I 3 times the new gutters would fix the problem. This is enough for now as my blood pressure is rising and I have to lay down.
Final Business Response As LeafGuard indicated in our prior response, we unfortunately cannot agree with the consumer regarding the source of the problems with the roof, specifically the roof over the covered patio of her home. As we thoroughly document in our previous response, the problems with the home was the construction/repairs of the covered patio. Specifically, her roofing contractor installed composite shingles on the low sloped, covered patio roof. Again, LeafGuard had no part with the construction/repair of the covered patio. More importantly, the condition pre-existed the sale and installation of the LeafGuard gutter system. Also, the problems with the roof are five feet upslope from where the gutter system is located at the edge of the roof. Thus, LeafGuard maintains that it is not responsible for the pre-existing problems with the roof due to them having no relationship to the LeafGuard gutter system. LeafGuard re-iterates that our sales representative did not tell the customer that LeafGuard gutter system would be the ultimate cure for all of the pre-existing problems with the roof. The sales representative discussed only problems that existed with issues related to the prior gutter system and the surrounding area. The sales representative did not tell the customer that the LeafGuard gutter system would fix the area of the that is leaking, which is at least five feet from the location of the gutters. If there are inherent problems with the roof leaking a distance from the end of the roof, typically a gutter system, be LeafGuard or any other, is not going to correct the inherent leaking problem. The customer implied that LeafGuard should be responsible for the pre-existing problems because we installed a gutter system on the home. As is clear from the customer's complaint, we only installed a replacement gutter system. There are many reasons why a consumer would want to have LeafGuard gutter system replace another gutter system. None of these reasons would be motivated by the thought that the gutter system would fix a problem with an inherently defective roof because the covered patio was not properly roofed. Finally, it would be the roofing contractor, if properly licensed, who installed the pre-existing covered patio roof who should have known how the roof would have behaved with the composite shingles and not LeafGuard. If the consumer has problems with the roof leaks, she should contact the roofer/individual who installed it. LeafGuard sold a gutter system and not a fix for the problems she was having with her roof prior to LeafGuard being involved with the home. LeafGuard has not and does not call the consumer a "liar" regarding the alleged fix(es) required for the leaking roof. As she said in her latest response, she is not a roofing contractor. And, as she indicated in her supplemental complaint, she was not able to determine if a particular gutter system would fix the problems with her roof. LeafGuard believes that the only a roofing expert, which the consumer is not, who has documented what would fix the consumer's roof leaking problems, can state what the proper fix action is. Consequently, the point that LeafGuard made in its original response was there is no documentation from a roofing expert that the problems with the covered patio roof (again that it was improperly constructed with composite shingles) could be fixed for $500. In other words, there is nothing documenting what the proposed fix action is and/or what it would cost to make the require fix(es). No business can be responsible for paying for damage that it has no responsibility for. This is even more so when there is no evidence that would show that the amount of money requested would actual fix the actual problem with the roof. LeafGuard has always behaved above-board in all of its dealings with the consumer. When we presented a thorough sales presentation to her, she decided to purchase the LeafGuard gutter system. We professionally installed the LeafGuard gutter system, which is operating as advertised and as we indicated during the sales presentation. Finally, when the consumer complained that the system was not operating correctly, we thoroughly investigated. There has nothing that has been presented to indicate that the problems the customer is having with the covered patio roof leaking is in anyway related to the LeafGuard gutter system that was installed on the home. It is unfortunate that the consumer is not satisfied with LeafGuard's conclusion that it is not responsible for this pre-existing condition. But again, LeafGuard cannot be responsible for problems that have nothing to do with its LeafGuard gutter system. Moreover, the LeafGuard gutter system is working correctly. Accordingly, LeafGuard is not going to refund the consumer her money for a completely, functional LeafGuard gutter system. So, we have to consider this matter closed.
Complaint Resolution: Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to BBB.
Complaint Category: Failure to provide promised assistance or support for products or services
Complaint: After installation of LeafGuard gutter system on Sept 12, 2013, one or several of the downspouts had problems with noise that are quite bothersome. I brought to their attentions immediately but first they failed to respond to my phone calls, then after talking their general manager, I was able to talk to ****, production manager who promised that they will come to fix the problem September 25, 2013. No one came and I waited all day. I repeatedly called their office, tried to talk to **** who was not at her office, but I left her multiple messages, but no reply. Now their office is closed. I called the sale rep who sold me the product and left messages but no answer too. They have absolutely failed to remedying the problem with the downspouts that they guarantee as promised, they failed to respond to my calls, they failed to keep their appointment while they made me wait all day for them, and they even failed to call back. After spending over $7000 for the gutter system, I deserve a better care.
Initial Business Response LeafGuard has responded to the customer's concerns/communications and believe that for the reasons below that the matter has been resolved. The first contact regarding this matter was from the customer's wife when she contacted LeafGuard's service department around September 13, 2013. Subsequently, the customer called LeafGuard on Tuesday, September 17, 2013, expressing his concern with a noisy downspout. LeafGuard's General Manager spoke with the customer and explained that the LeafGuard gutter was new and when water travels down a downspout in a brand new system it will make some noise. He said the noise was near his bedroom and that his wife is having a hard time sleeping. LeafGuard presented the customer with a possible solution to the noise problem. We have some plastic liner called "Baffling" where we can line the inside of the downspout to help with the noise. We offered to install the "Baffling" at no charge to the customer. The customer agreed with our recommended solution. We originally scheduled our service crew to install the "Baffling" for Thursday, September 26th. Unfortunately, the other service calls for that day were very extensive and complex, and, therefore, LeafGuard could not meet the customer's scheduled appointment, due to the high complexity of the other service calls that day. We explained this to the customer, and our service crew went out the following day (Friday Sept. 27th). The customer was there for the service of installing the "Baffling" in the noisy downspout. We believe that "Baffling" should minimize any noise. Consequently, at this time, we consider this matter closed.
Complaint Resolution: Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to BBB.
Complaint Category: Sales presentation not consistent with the written agreement
Complaint: on july 27th leafguard came to install gutters an down spouts,I explained to the sales person that I would repair the north west corner, the fascia boards were splaid apart by 1.5 inches, would have been a easey fix, but oh no he told me to stay off the ladder ,his crew would repair that, plus once all of the flashings were up I would never see it,lie.it took me over 4 hours to repair because of the gutters being up. from the bottom looking up, all you could see was daylight, the installer came back on the 28th, to wash off all of the freeway grime,including all of the dead grass they were covered with, because the work on the dead grass on the park strip, I made a short trip to the bank, after getting a call fron this guy stating he be by latter in the morning,only to get home 20 minutes to find him hosing down the gutters, and try to wipe them off with his sweat shirt.he didn't even have a rag. then we started talking about my complaints after the install, of which they got paid in full buy my *********** ****, I found that out by calling my bank,trying to stop payment to this co.paid in full without even starting work. this person could not even see the issues I was talking about until I climbed the ladder 2 times to show him of the lousey flashing job which was also hold up the singels which would allow even more water to leak inside of the soffit. so he cuts some small pieces of metal, screws one side so as to block the daylite and leaves the other side free in the wind..so he leaves!! later that day I discover thata section on the front of the house isn't even attached to there own brackets. then the salesperson shows up wanting to see if I was happy, I said no way !! the he got very confrontational, he asked what I wanted for compensation, I replied 200.00 seems fair, of which he statrd his boss my make a counter, I replied 200.00 or come and take there junk down. I had 2 more confrontational issue with him another in person and one phone call , in which I called enough take your junk down !!! then on the 28th there district manager called to follow up on my complaint against this salesperson in which I personally requested to never have contact with again.I was told he had been spoken to and was told to never call me again!! now this manager wants to take off the gutters and replace all of the fascia boards with 6 inch boards , this is not acceptable to me it will make my house look like some fly by nite co installed them. the system should never even been legal to begin with, being the house only has 3.5 inch fascia boards to try and support this weight . this manger thinks that by putting up a pre primered board and then reinstall the gutters would be satisfactorey .Then I asked Well now how am I to paint these to match the egg shell color of the gutters , not to mention the rest of my house. I will not stoope to there level . this is there fault. the only option they have is come take there garbage off my house!!!! And besides that he hasn't evev tried to correct this !!! I have already filed a complaint with the state attorneys office .This is complaint #2, next on to ******************** , one of there other places for info on this co. I personally 5 thumbs down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Business' Initial Response We have been discussing the situation with Mr. ****** for several weeks. Mr. ****** does not like the looks of the gutter because of his short fascia board which exposes the wedges on the inverted fascia. Mr. ****** also stated that the gutters do not flow correctly and it overshoots in some areas. Our Production Manager (**** *******) went out to the property to examine the situation. We told Mr. ****** that we would remove the gutters and place a 1X6 fascia on the entire house at no charge, then re-hang the gutters, flow them and ensure they sould not overshoot. Mr. ****** refused us to fix the problem and demanded we remove the gutters and give him his money back. We spoke with Mr. ****** on Wednesday July 23rd, 2013 and discussed the removal and full refund of the LeafGuard installation. We are currently preparing a full release for Mr. ******. Once he has signed and notarized the release, LeafGuard will issue him a check for the full amount.
Consumer's Final Response Thank you for your help with my case ID ******** , I have been able to secure a full refund and there gutters are gone!! I learned a big lesson, we all need not only to research the contractor, but esp. look up and read there complaint page found under pissed consumers, that's where the real story behind these companys. Thank you again. ******************. ************
Complaint Resolution: Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to BBB.
Complaint Category: Failure to respond to phone calls or written requests for assistance or support
Complaint: I placed 6 phone calls to Seattle Leafguard and no one returned my call until after the 6th call. One of my gutters is overflowing and there was no sense of urgency to assist me. Once I was able to talk to the service department the woman wasn't concerned with my disatisfaction. She said she was one person dealing with 30,000 customers. I tried to tell her my request but she(*****) stopped me from stating my desire and told me when they could send someone out to review the situation. This situation was one of the worse customer service I have experienced.
Why did it take 6 phone calls to get someone to call me back AND why didn't the company bring in more staff if they were overloaded with work?
Business' Initial Response General Manager **** ***** Spoke with Ms. ****** (very nice lady) and apologized for her frustation in trying to get a hold of our service department. Once Ms. ****** did get in contact with ****** ******* (Service Rep), ****** did say how busy she was. General Manager did have a conversation with ****** and explained that the customers do not need to hear or feel like they are a burden when they call in for service. All customers are treated like they are our only customer. Ms. ****** is scheduled for service on April 29, 2013 at 9am to address her issues with the LeafGuard system.
Complaint Resolution: Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to BBB.
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