Poor quality product, w/defects causing damage to home, continuous blaming us for problems, loss of work due to appointments to get problem fixed.
9 Champion windows, entry door and storm door installed March 2012. Summer of 2012, we reported a problem with the storm door. Window leaks discovered Sept. 2012, repeated calls to get assistance. Other windows checked & leaking found on all 8 double hung windows. Took multiple appointments at our home to get them to admit that there was water coming in due to a problem with windows. One window was replaced and still leaked. One insurance claim was paid to fix wall damage. It took until December to get leak fixed & repairs made. All other double hung windows still leaked, we, the homeowners endured accusations & Champion blatently stating that there wasn't a problem. Finally, we(homeowners) figured out exactly how the water was getting in & informed Champion. They reinstalled flashing in a different manner to compensate for the design flaw in the windows. We have 8 windows that are adjusted to stop the leaks, but still have problems with cold entering the home, and creating moisture problems on the windows. We continue to have a leakage problem with the storm door and picture window purchased from them. We have requested a full refund, so we can purchase quality windows, that are fully insulated and do not leak, do not require odd installation technique to keep water out. Champion keeps saying that the problem is "condensation", even after we proved that the water was being channeled in, under the windows, due to a design flaw, where the drains put the water onto what they call a "sill extender". If the problem was condensation, that damaged one window frame, and one wall, then the wetness would not have been corrected by the movement of the flashing. The "rigging" done by the installers from Champion, did stop water coming in from outside. This does not correct the cold problem. Champion has refused to refund our money. They have now requested that we open our home to an additional insurance agent and engineer, not employed by Champion. This would require another missed day of work, which I cannot afford. All three family members in our household were ill during the time that the window framework was exposed, due to the mold and moisture problems.
Based on the fact that the products installed are poor quality, with faulty design, we would like to purchase windows and a storm door from another company. We cannot afford to do that, without a refund from Champion. It was through our diligence that Champion now knows about the problem with water getting into the "sill extender". This knowledge benefits their company, and allows them to avoid these problems with future installations. Due to the months of suffering my family has endured, including illness, stress, countless hours working to find the entry points of water around the windows, loss of work, insult and emotional injury due to accusations that we caused the water leaks, I am requesting a full and total refund of $8731.00 from Champion. Our situation, while very painful for us, benefited Champion, with quality control of their product. We pointed out what they could not see, as a product defect. -******* ******
Although it is unfortunate that we have had to complete some service work at this residence the fact remains that we did complete the work. We arrived when we said we would and did everything in our power to fix anything that was brought up. There was damage to a bathroom wall and an insurance claim was filed and paid out for the damage. The only existing issue left is the front picture window that has condensation on it. The room was at 30% humidity with a humidifier in the same room as the window. The temperature outside at the time was 10 degrees without any windchill and the maximum humidity level at that point is no more than 25%. We cannot control condensation. Lowering the humidity in the home and allowing air to move freely at the bottom of the window would solve the problem. The windows are performing the way they are supposed to and the way they were represented.
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Before any work was done, we had several visits from Champion, that lasted only 5-15 minutes. They looked at the damage and did NO investigation to try to determine why we were getting water into our house. Their explanation from the beginning was "CONDENSATION". They worked very hard, having different representatives use this same term, as if they thought more and more of their "experts" saying that would get us to stop saying we were getting continued damage to our home. We were berated and insulted, and it was implied that a Champion window owner could not have a humidifier in their home. The problem here is that the water damaging our home WAS not coming from the humidifier running in our home. At the time of the most extensive damage, in the bathroom, we were not running a humidifier at all - it was fall, and the furnace was not yet running, and our humidifier was still packed away in the basement. When the damage occurred to the framework of the kitchen window, the same was true. Champion installers had to take the kitchen window out, replace wood, and reinstall the window. IF THE PROBLEM had EVER been humidity, THEN the "jeri-rigging" done by Champion (to all 8 double hung windows) WOULD not have solved the problem. If humidity was the problem, then we would still be having the problem with those windows. After countless phone calls, to Champion and HOURS on our part, to find where the water was coming in, WE SHOWED Champion WHAT the problem was. One of the reps from Ohio proposed a solution to COMPENSATE for the window design flaw. We agreed that this change might actually stop the water from the outside, getting into our house and causing more damage. Champion did install flashing in such a way as to cover up the area that previously allowed a constant flow of water underneath the windows. We now have windows that are "rigged" in such a way, to keep the water out. We paid almost $9000.00 for what we were told was a quality window. What we got was an inferior product with a MAJOR design flaw, that most likely is resulting in damage to perhaps thousands of homes with these same windows installed. Our purpose in bringing this complaint to the BBB is to get Champion to take responsibility for the truth of this situation. NO CUSTOMER should be treated the way we were. We were repeatedly blamed, when they never put in the screw hole plugs, when they installed windows that have the drain holes pouring water onto the "sill extenders", which caused a flow of water under the window EVERY time there was precipitation outside. Not only is the treatment of customers an issue here, but what about all of those unsuspecting previous customers out there having the same problem we had, to varying degrees. How many homes are there out there with soaked, rotting, molding wood and insulation in the walls of their homes, where Champion windows are installed. We paid for quality windows. We got inferior ones (and poor treatment, and hours of our time spent bringing light to their design flaw - we did "quality control" for them). NOW, we want quality windows in our home (just as we did last March). We want a full refund, so we can have windows put in that DO NOT need to be "rigged" in any way. The picture window is STILL a problem. We had water oozing up through the corner seam of the Champion frame that holds the glass. This was NOT condensation coming from the surface of the interior of the window. The outside edge of the framework of the window is considerably colder than the center area of the sides, top & bottom of the frame. This is why we are getting ICE at the corners of the window (on the window frame itself). Champion cannot blame our humidity level for the temperature difference on their window frame. It is temperature difference that causes condensation. The problem with the window is that the framework is not properly insulated (they claim their windows keep the cold out, and noise-BOTH still a problem). It appears to us that there is insulation, BUT the frame is not fully insulated -this would account for the excessive moisture at the corners, and the ice there. I have not yet figured out how/why water was oozing UP through the seam of the window frame. CHAMPION has NOT addressed this at all. They simply sent out an insurance adjuster - WHY, I do not know - but we cooperated, and let him look at the window. Still, completely NOT addressed, is our very first complaint. The STORM DOOR that leaks also. It is just one thing after another with Champion, and they are still failing to address ALL of the issues, and they are STILL blaming us, the customer, the homeowner. I fear that that is what they do to ALL of their customers. AGAIN, I request a full and total refund, so that I can purchase quality windows and a door for my home. I lost three days of work, amounting to a value of over $1000.00. All members of my family were sick, with respiratory illness while our window frames were exposed, due to the mold and moisture. I found the flaw in their design for them, so they can now make changes to their product (did a service to their company). Given the entire situation, a full and total refund is warranted and appropriate. I have sent numerous e-mails, and a letter stating most of this (letter was sent before we realized there was a problem with the picture window). The responses I am getting are the same old answer -"CONDENSATION"- fault of the homeowner. WELL, IT IS NOT MY FAULT I HAD THE DAMAGE TO MY HOME. It IS all Champion's fault. It is their inferior product that has lead to MONTHS of distress, discomfort, insult, and injury. It is their attitude and actions that resulted in very poor treatment of me and my family (the customer). It is about time that somebody stands up to this company. Average families just don't have thousands of dollars to spend on inferior products like these purchased from Champion. My request for a full and total refund stands, as I feel it is right.
Final Business Response
They have received the offer amount and we are still waiting on the new window from the factory. We will install as soon as it is received.
Final Consumer Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Champion HAS NOT fixed all of the service issues at this home. They are completely ignoring the issue with the storm door AND the picture window. They have done NOTHING about either. In addition, their solution with the 8 double hung windows, was to "RIG" them to stop the water entry. While this did stop the water from entering, we now have rigged windows, not quality windows. Champion products ARE NOT performing the way they should OR the way they were originally represented. Champion NEVER told us that when we had them install a storm door(replacing one purchased at a **** *****)that IT would allow water into the threshhold area - the other door we had, NEVER did that. The picture window has had water oozing UP through the seam of the window frame(the vinyl frame that holds the glass). The picture window has had ICE at the two bottom corners of the frame-this CLEARLY indicates a problem with the quality of the window built by Champion. IF the window was insulated properly, there would not be enough cold entering our home at the corners, to cause ice. Champion NEVER originally represented their windows as needing special "rigging" to keep the outside water out. Champion NEVER represented their picture windows as ICING up at the corners when it is cold, during the Michigan winters. Champion NEVER represented their products in a context that the homeowner could not run a humidifier or take a hot shower in the home. Champion did represent their windows as noise reducing, and we still hear everything loud and clear, from the outside. The lack of noise reduction is just one more aspect where Champion windows ARE NOT performing as "originally represented". Champion's response to this complaint with the Better Business Bureau is VERY MUCH like the response we have gotten from DAY 1. No matter what the complaint or issue we have had, from water running in the storm door at such a rate that it splashed onto the door jam - and I mean, making a SPLASH, to water dripping down the wall in the bathroom, under the new Champion window - because the drywall was so saturated, due to the leak under the window, Champion KEEPS saying "THERE IS NO PROBLEM. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS CONDENSATION". IF - IF the problem was EVER condensation, then the RIGGING they did would not have stopped the leaks with the double hung windows. WE WERE RIGHT every time we called Champion. Their windows were not just leaking, their windows were CHANNELING water in, under the window, to our wood sill(the framework the window sits in). If we had not spent countless hours to find the source, we would still have water coming in. We never got one ounce of respect from this shoddy company. Instead, we have gotten constantly ignored or insulted. Yes, they have come out----to tell us that it was our fault. Once they saw the major damage in our bathroom, they had no choice but to give us an insurance settlement to cover the cost of repairs. They also had their own installers replace wood around the kitchen window because the problem had so saturated the framework, that one board was rotting away. I WOULD BE pleased to hear that Champion "will be happy to complete any services needed at this residence now and in the future" IF they would admit that there is a problem. Clearly, they do not intend to fix problems that THEY SAY do not exist. No one has asked them to fix our "condensation" issue, because we do not have a condensation issue. WE DO have an issue with a poorly insulated AND LEAKING picture window, we DO have an issue with a leaky storm door, and we DO have an issue with "RIGGED" double hung windows. And we DO have a problem with a very POOR PRODUCT from Champion windows-9 windows and a door. We DO have a problem with the mistreatment we have received from a TERRIBLY run company. We DO have a problem, as our family has been ill because of their poor quality product. We DO have a problem because their inferior product and uncooperative attitude have cost me over $1050.00 in lost work time. We DO have a problem because we are HONEST consumers, expecting a good product for our hard earned almost $9000.00. AND CHAMPION'S RESPONSE is "We will not be refunding any money."