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Climags, LLC

Phone: (520) 261-4246

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Customer Complaints Summary

2 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 1 closed in last 12 months
Complaint TypeTotal Closed Complaints
Advertising / Sales Issues1
Problems with Product / Service1
Billing / Collection Issues0
Delivery Issues0
Guarantee / Warranty Issues0
Total Closed Complaints2

Complaint Breakdown by ResolutionAbout Complaint Details

Complaint Resolution Log (2)
10/01/2015Advertising / Sales Issues | Read Complaint Details
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Complaint
False advertizing on Para-Ordnance P14 magazines
If you were to look at the factory (black ones) Para ordinance magazines you will see that it shows the sight openings for the bullets. Also the factory label is stamed on the mag casing. but with the nickel mag they do not have any of these things. Also the base plate with the logo on the mags can be purchased separately and put on any mag. factory mags are made in Italy these are made in canada.

Desired Settlement
i want my full refund. i was charged a 15% restocking fee.

Business Response
"You can only lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink"

We have spoken to this customer numerous times about these magazines and he refuses to grasp the information we are providing him with. The order was for (2) Nickel Para-Ordnance P14 magazines and that is what was sent and received by him. He did not like the magazines that he received because they did not have viewing holes on the back of the magazine like his Para-USA magazines have, which is fine. We have a standard inspection period that we provide as a service to our customers for every order. This is stated in our Term and Conditions page in which all customers have to agree to before checking out, it goes over what is expected from them and what they can expect from us. He called us within our inspection period therefore we approved the return. When we received the item back he requested a refund to his card and we sent him his refund less the re-stocking, which is also clearly stated in our Terms and Conditions page. He then accused us of false advertising and couldn't believe that we had the "gal" (we think he meant to say gall) to charge him the re-stocking fee. We wrote him back asking him to elaborate on his false advertising claims since both the picture and the description were accurate. He then replied with a reference to a different listing in which there are black Para-USA magazines listed, but then quickly sent a follow-up email that concluded with "just refund my money", which we did in accordance to the terms that he agreed to adhere to upon making the purchase. Over a week passed and we did not he from him about his order, however our system is automatically setup to send out review forms for any order that has been placed and he received one as all of our customers do. He left a negative review, which read:

If you were to look at the factory (black ones) Para ordinance magazines you will see that it shows the sight openings for the bullets. Also the factory label is stamed on the mag casing. but with the nickel mag they do not have any of these things. Also the base plate with the logo on the mags can be purchased separately and put on any mag. factory mags are made in Italy these are made in canada.

The review is not a problem with us (even though there is not a place in which you can get factory floor-plates by themselves), we need to know when things go bad just as much (if not more) as when things go good. Typically we do not respond to feedback, since most of it is good and when we do get a bad one it is usually about the actual product, not someone saying we have bad customer service or accusing us of false advertising. Therefore we felt inclined to email him; not only to hopefully change his mind about our customer service but also to help educate him more on his firearm because he obviously still had not looked into the history behind the Para brand. We thanked him for his review and exclaimed how we value all of our customers input and then politely pointed him in the direction on some 3rd party literature in which he could educate himself on his firearm. We then wrote a short explanation for him of what he would find, although we had already been over it with him during his initial phone call. Here is our email to him :
"*********,
Thank you for your review, we read all of our reviews and value our customers input. It seems that you still have some confusion about the Para-Ordance Brand. Here is a link to a forum (link was inserted in text and leads to https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=XXXXXX) that we think would be helpful for you, it discusses some of the history behind Para. To sum it up for you, Para-Ordance was originally a Canadian company, they made everything in Canada (including their magazines). Then Para moved to the U.S. under the name Para-USA, at this point they began to outsource much of their manufacturing and only assemble the gun (the magazines were outsourced to Mec-Gar, which is an Italian company). Now the Para brand name is owned by Remington.

We hope this helps you to better understand the history behind your Para firearm and helps you make better decisions when buying Para products. If you have any questions please feel free to ask.

Thank You,

CLIMAGS"

He then wrote back :

DO NOT EMAIL AGAIN. Whether I'm right or wrong I NEVER want to hear from you again.

So we didn't write him back. We have done everything that we can to educate this gentleman on his firearm and the different options of magazines available to him but he simply does not care to hear the facts.

"You can only lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink"

We will be happy to send all correspondence and our Terms and Conditions for evaluation from the BBB regarding this matter.


Consumer Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
There seem to be a issue with climags in understanding that ANY magazine manufacture can make a mag to make it fit the para p14. But it is NOT a factory magazine. They advertize a factory magazine not a mag that will fit the para p14. Factory magazines are made in Italy NOT CANADA

Final Business Response
Para-USA factory magazines are produced by Mec-Gar, which is based in Italy. Para-Ordnance factory magazines were produced in Canada. Which, as previously stated, is no longer in business because they moved to the U.S. Under the Para-USA brand name! Here is another link for our thick-headed friend to check out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para-Ordnance.

You cannot just go out and buy factory stamped magazines or floor-plates, Remington has not allowed anybody but Mec-Gar to produce them and all that are produced, are distributed directly from Remingtom. We have know produced 2 third party resources for our friend to check out about the history of Para-Ordnance. We will not continue to beat a dead horse. If he maybe provides a link as to where we can find these knockoff magazines or floor-plates we would be happy to continue this discussion (and report the website/manufacturer for copyright infringement), until then we will consider this case closed.


Final Consumer Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Climags resort to offending customers and and instead of working with them. And the reference to a dead horse i consider Climags VULTURES. also here is the link one of many places where you can buy the base pad.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/XXXXXXX.htm
Ebay.

03/31/2014Problems with Product / Service | Read Complaint Details
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Complaint
I ordered a gun magazine from these guys and they assured me it would fit my gun. Got it in and it didnt. Tried to get full refund they refused.
Placed an order on 2-17-14 for a magazine for my gun. Before I ordered the magazine I asked them to doudle check and make sure it was the right magazine since there were a couple different ones for my model gun. They assured me that it was the correct magazine for my gun.Delivery date was supposed to be 2-20-14 well it finally got here on 2-24-14 and it did not fit my gun.Contcted them for a return and refund since they sent the wrong one.They responded by email and told me I would have to pay for return shipping plus a 15% restocking fee.Of course I was not happy with that. So I wrote back and complained. They then called and said they would wave the restocking fee but in no way would they pay for return shipping.Why should I have to pay for return shipping when this was in no way my fault? Not too mention the part was 4 days late getting here. Now I am stuck with a magazine I cant use because they didn't do their job.

Desired Settlement
I feel like they should pay for return shipping and a full refund is in order.If they dont want to pay full shipping they should refund at least half the cost of $18.00 and I will keep the mag.

Business Response
Contact Name and Title: *** ******* Owner
Contact Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Contact Email: ********@climags.com
We have tried to work with Mr. ******* on this matter the best that we can. Before he ordered he asked us if the Tokarev 213a 8RD magazine would fit his Tokarev 213, and the answer is yes it does fit that model. He proceeded to order the magazine and we sent out the magazine the day after it was ordered. If you remember, there was a huge winter system on that side of the country that was delaying deliveries. Which probably was the reason it didn't arrive as quickly as it should have. When **** received his magazine, it was exactly what he ordered. The correct magazine was sent, the description was right, the picture for the magazine was right, everything was right except one thing... **** doesn't have a Tokarev 213 9mm. He has a Tokarev 213 7.62x25mm, 9mm conversion, therefore the magazine did not fit. Now **** expects us to refund him and pay the entire shipping round trip because he didn't know what kind of gun he had. If you are not familiar with this firearm here is an analogy:

Let's pretend I own a Ice Cream Shop in a small rural area. One day **** calls me and asks if we have white ice cream (Tokarev 213 9mm magazines), we of course tell him yes. He proceeds to drive to our shop and orders a bowl of white ice cream. He gets his ice cream goes and sits down at a table and takes a bite. It was not what he wanted so he takes it back up to the cashier and says this isn't what I asked for. The cashier(very confused at this point) asks what is wrong with it. He says its not right, he had a bowl of ice cream in Hawaii while on vacation a few weeks ago and it tasted nothing like like. The cashier thinks for a minute and goes "Oh, you probably had coconut ice cream(Tokarev 213 7.62x25mm 9mm conversion), we only have vanilla (Tokarev 213 9mm). We are sorry about that let us refund you for the ice cream." **** replies "That's not going to work, you need to refund me for the ice cream and pay for the gas I used to get down here."

You see where the problem is. **** asked if the magazine would fit his gun (Tokarev 213 9mm), but he didn't know exactly what he had, therefore asked the wrong question to begin with. I have since helped **** understand what he has, which I hope helps in finding the correct magazine for his Gun and will gladly refund him for the magazine when it is returned. If I had the magazine he was looking for I would gladly exchange it for him, but I do not have one at this time. Never the less, I will not refund him shipping costs (which is what this case is about) because of his mistake.

Consumer Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I feel a full refund is in order shipping included. This is not pretent problem so the ice cream stand doesnt apply but I'll play make believe with you too.. Since they are supposedly so knowledgable about this gun they shouldn't have told me This mag would fit my gun they should have asked more questions to find out what I have instead of right away saying this mag would fit my gun.You should have to pay for gas at the ice cream stand if I call you first and ask if you have rocky road and you say yes there is no way we will run out before I get there and when I get there all you have is butter cream.This whole transaction has been a rocky road with these guys trying to blame me for their mistake.Not satisfied at all.

Final Business Response
With any transaction we presume that the customer knows what gun they are buying a magazine for. However, we do know that customers make mistakes sometimes and accidentally order the wrong magazine. Whether it is because they thought they had something they don't or they thought the magazine was something it wasn't, we take returns on any item for any reason for 20 days after the order is received. Our return policy is very simple; 15% re-stocking fee for any return and shipping charges are not refundable.

Final Consumer Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
When a customer isn't sure what they are ordering and ask a sales associate if what they are buying is the right part for their item and the sales associate without asking any more questions and without hesitation says yes this part will fit your item then the customer is lead to believe this associate knows what he is talking about and proceeds to order with confidence.If I am running a auto repair shop and I call up advance auto parts and I order a part and they bring me a part that doesnt fit the car I'm working on I call them up and they either bring me the right part or they credit me the full amount, They dont say well we will bring you the right part but you will have to pay for the gas and you will owe me 15% more just for me to take that part back. Sometimes when it comes to admitting you made a mistake you have to pay for your mistake and eat some cost to keep the customer happy.That is what makes up a good customer relationship and builds trust. These guys don't care about the customer at all, all they care about is making a sale no matter what the cost. Customer service does not exist with these guys. I would advise any one to steer clear of these shady practices and policies. You should put disclaimer beside your guaranteed to fit thing to have posted on your site that state: guaranteed to fit and if it dont thats your problem and live with it we do have a return policy but it will cost you more to return it than it will for you to just keep it. HAHAHAHA sucker.

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