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BBB Accredited Business since 12/08/2005

Angie's Body & Frame Inc.

Phone: (419) 668-2959Fax: (419) 668-5401

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Customer Complaints Summary

2 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 0 closed in last 12 months
Complaint TypeTotal Closed Complaints
Problems with Product / Service2
Advertising / Sales Issues0
Billing / Collection Issues0
Delivery Issues0
Guarantee / Warranty Issues0
Total Closed Complaints2

Complaint Breakdown by ResolutionAbout Complaint Details

Complaint Resolution Log (2)
07/31/2014Problems with Product / Service | Read Complaint Details
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Complaint
On May 28, 2014, one of our cars was involved in a crash and was towed to Angie's Body and Frame to be repaired. It was the decision of my wife to send this car here based on their reputation to do excellent work. On June 19, 2014, I was informed that the car was done and ready for delivery. We couldn't get to their facility until Sat. June 21 because of our busy work schedules. On June 21 at 8AM we went to receive the car. When I examined our car it was obvious that the car had not been repaired and detailed properly. ******* was in charge that morning to meet us and have my wife sign off on the repairs without her first looking at the car. I informed him of the problems that needed to be resolved with the car. He said he was the "office guy" and had nothing to do with the repairs. I told him that he was an agent for the company representing the company at that moment. I expressed my dissatisfaction for the job and told him to have it fixed properly. There was no apology for the time wasted for me and my wife to go there. On Monday, June 23, 2014, I called **** ******, the owner, and asked him about the problem. He told me that it was "no big deal". I expressed to him my dissatisfaction and he hung up on me. It was clear to me that he had already received payment and wasn't interested in listening to my concerns. Later that afternoon, he informed me that the car was ready for delivery again. He treated me very abruptly and hung up. When I went to look at the car this time, my concerns had been resolved but I was treated like I had no business being there. He said he was upset that I had vented on his "office guy" of my dissatisfaction. I said I just wanted my car repaired properly and wasn't concerned with that. He offered no apology for our inconvenience. I don't know why I was told it was ready for delivery when it clearly wasn't the first time. I have done business with several body shops over the years and have never been treated with such a lack of concern for my time being wasted.

Desired Settlement
******* ****** needs to practice honesty and be a big man and admit when he is wrong. He can not handle criticism. He told 3 lies:1. He said they sent him the wrong wheel to buy more time.2. He said our car was ready.3. He said a door molding that had wet sanding scratches on it was caused from my wife's rings (jewelry)when she drives with her arm out the window.Sounds like he has been in the business too long and needs to get someone else for customer service.

Business Response
Mr. ****** ****** of **** ***** ******* ******* and his wife had this vehicle towed to us and requested we do the repairs to it. He and his wife both stopped by that evening after the car arrived at our location and he removed the ******************** he had glued to both the front and rear bumpers which left both panels an ugly sight prior to the insurance company adjustor getting there.

We accomplished the repairs and called them to pick up the vehicle on Thursday June 19th at about 1:30 in the afternoon. We were told they were much too busy to pick their car up and would not be able to pick the car up during our normal weekday business hours, so they wanted to pick the vehicle up on Saturday morning. When******** the office manager met him and his wife that morning, (I was out of town that Saturday morning) she came into the office, was very pleasant and took care of the paper work and they walked out to the car where ****** was looking the car over.

He had given******** an attitude from the very beginning, and started to complain when he asked him if everything looked ok. He acknowledged the finish and fit of his car was better than it was before it was hit. He also noticed we took care of a few door dings and scratches for him while we had it in our shop.

After that he was looking for anything reason to not pick the car up. He picked out some minor details my young detail technician missed. (My full time girl was on vacation and I personally addressed his issues on Monday morning. Of which it took me 10 minutes to take care of.) None of which were any reason to not pick up his car that morning, or degrade my office manager for a full 15 minutes, while his wife kept asking him to stop being rude.

(I actually had 2 people that live in the Apartments next to our shop ask me who the crazy man was that was screaming at******** in the parking lot, their words... not mine)

Everybody in this town knows I will do anything for my customers if they ask and are respectful to my very talented crew.

It is my opinion the reason he delayed the pickup of the car to begin with and that he had no intention of picking his car up on Saturday either was due to the fact had picked up an expensive rental car from ***************** and did not want to deal with returning it at that time...if he had issue with his car, the insurance company would continue to pay for it, again, my opinion.

I would have thought that Mr. ****** having a struggling business in this same town would know how to deal with people in a small town. He does not. He has no respect for people that work very hard and have pride in their work. He lost my respect completely when he viciously ridiculed in public,********, my highly decorated, retired ***************** (**), who I am lucky enough to have as my office manager.

On Monday, Mr. ****** arrived in the afternoon to pick his car up. I asked him if the car met his expectations now, and he said yes it did. It was then I apologized that his car was not detailed to his approval on Saturday. Then I told him there was no reason to belittle******** as he was the Office Manager and did not repair cars. His quote was "I don't care"

At this point I asked him to take his car, now that he approved of it, and leave. I also told him was no longer welcome here and to take his work to the other shops in town in the future.

I believe that is why the BBB got a letter from Mr. ******.

Thank you,


******* ******
President
*****'s Body and Frame, Inc.
XXX-XXX-XXXX
******@*************


Consumer Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Mr ****** has made several untruthful statements in his response. But first I wonder why a statement having to do w/ our removing ******* *************** from front and back bumpers is made? Of course we removed those at his prompting, because even as the car was towed into his parking lot, a conversation had already ensued assuming that a ******* did something wrong; which was why the car was there. (The crash was in fact not due to a *******'s mistake, as we were hit by a car while waiting at a stop sign!!!) He must think it is funny to twist the facts and make up blatant lies. This is very disappointing to us as we have referred his shop to many over the years. *****'s Body and Frame Inc. had always been a reputable shop when ***** owned the business, which is why my wife chose to have her car repaired there. Though neither front nor back bumpers were in question, as far as repairs were concerned, the stickers were removed so that others would not recognize this high profile car as a ******* driver car while it sat outside in their lot w/ all the other crashed vehicles. Because people make assumptions, thus generating even more small town gossip and judgments. Which could affect our business reputation in some minds. He makes an accusation of our not wanting to pick the car up due to our renting another car comparable to the *************** in his shop!!! ? Because we are a very busy *******, having three locations, we in fact, were greatly inconvenienced to the tune of 86 hours of ******* drive time! Our *******s get to chose a reward car as one of their *************. The rental (a charger) is not equipped w/ the features and can not be altered to satisfy *************! So not only is his statement false but it is very ignorant. June, July and Aug are the most inconvenient times to have a car tied up in a shop (It took very nearly 4 weeks!!!)and when the points were finally heard as to why we found the work inferior there was never an apology for further inconveniences. Sat am (when we went the first time to pick it up) I had a remedial class to instruct. My wife and I drove in together and she was to leave in her car (*************** reportedly done) and I would continue on to my way to class (from 9am-6pm). But because the car was not in fact done, I had to arrange for my own transportation later that day. While it is the fact that my wife reminded me his office manager (*******) was not the person responsible for the work and that he was merely a representative I agreed to calm down and make my complaints known respectfully. Maybe if **** respected that time is money and honesty is always the best way to treat your customers he would get it that this was all completely uncalled for. My wife and I, along w/ our staff of three other instructors are extremely busy in the summer months. I teach am and pm classes Mon-Thurs, On Fridays I am an ******************, and I conduct remedial classes on two Sundays a month and one juvenile remedial a month (on Saturdays). My wife covers the business phone calls, scheduling *******s for *************, and classroom, as well as ****************** and classroom. Because we are the largest and leading full scale ******* ******* in our entire county, how he assumes we are struggling I am not sure? Other than our people work quite a lot of hours to fulfill those obligations, in such assumption we would agree. Perhaps he was disappointed we did not rent one of his cars? He mentioned to my wife he had cars for rent. We chose to get a car comparable to the car we were having repaired...because that is our business image and we have the right to maintain this especially due to the fact that the crash was not our fault. We bought the *************** brand new (It was never in a crash before) and there would never have been even a reason to make the statement he blatantly lies in saying I said "It was better than it ever looked before?"!!!! Ridiculous!! **** may want to minimize the lack of quality and blame high school workers (from *****), and his fulltime girl who was on vacation... but from Thursday (the day we were told the work was completed and we could pick up car anytime),until Sat am (when we arrived at 8:10 am to pick it up),he never looked at the car himself? Then he had the attitude and said this was "no big deal"!!!! ? I'm certain **** would not have accepted this lack of quality for his dream car. On whose word did he rely that the car was "ready for pick up"? There was never any apology to myself or my wife at all at anytime! The words were never spoken that I would not be welcome to ever return to his shop, I would have surely mentioned this in my original complaint to BBB!! But now that we are lied about as well as being lied to, we **** have our cars repaired elsewhere. In fact this car **** have the needed adjustments/repairs done at a reputable shop, as the character lines do not match up to the rest of the body. The driver door bumps out about 1/8th of an inch further than it should, and it is very noticeable. His personal attacks on me are speaking volumes. Being that we are both business owners in a small town, one would think that before one choses to go about responding to valid complaints in this manner they would know what the facts were. We run an honest, quality, small business that is growing because it is built on hard work and integrity while providing the services we promise our customers. The fact remains that not everyone is always completely satisfied. But when we find that our work could have been better we make the needed apologies and compensate. We don't make up lies and spread those untruths to others. All **** did was make excuses to us for why the job took so long and for the lack of quality after saying it was done. His response to BBB further exasperates this disappointment. Since opening our first ******* in **** we have been rubbing shoulders with many fellow business owners, and not once were we ever met with this kind of appalling treatment.

Final Business Response
In ****** ******' Desired Settlement he states No settlement requested and that I told 3 lies
Lie 1: The wrong wheel was sent to buy more time
- Our first and quickest option was to replace the damaged wheel with a refurbished one which we ordered Invoice #XXXXXX shows a machine finished Aluminum rim was sent to us which was not what was ordered nor was it what could be used for this repair, it is marked "Wrong" and Returned.
- As they had no available painted wheels at this point in time Invoice # XXXXXX is for his wheel which had to be sent out for full re-conditioning w/full face painted. This is a 5 day turn around which delayed his vehicles delivery.
- This was not a lie. All of our receipts are time stamped.
Lie 2: We told him his car was ready
- His car was ready.
- This was not a Lie
Lie 3 He states the door (belt) molding that had wet sanding scratches on it (he stated I told him) was caused by my wife's rings (jewelry) when she drives with her arm out the window.
-The belt molding on driver's door he stated had scratches from us sanding it. This molding along with any other item on the outside of the door was removed to allow for the proper repairs and paint work to the outer door and are then replaced after completed. What he was referring to as wet sanding scratches was wax streaks which when I wiped my finger across that area the wax smoothed out. As new paint cannot be waxed I can only assume that it was from the last time the car had been waxed.
- There were no scratches so there was no lie.

His complaints given that morning about the car did not justify him not picking the car up.
Rivets within the confines of the left front wheel well had 1/8" stems protruding which does not affect either the appearance or operation of the car
In the crevice of the arm rest of the door panel was the slightest bit of dust. Again nothing to warrant the car from being picked up. It was wiped off when he picked it up.
In his last response he states "While it is a fact that my wife reminded me ""I agreed to calm down and make my complaints known respectfully". He acknowledges his demeanor at the time was out of line. And was more so on the phone when he called the following Monday and spoke to me on the phone.
The only reason I added the information on the signs the customer removed was merely to relay that what his complaints were, the couple of very minor issues devalued his car, when in fact these bumpers actually do devalue his car and was self-inflected. (I wrote an estimate to repair and refinish the bumpers, $976.00, not including replacing the carpet that has holes punched thru it for the second brake pedal since you are using this vehicle for commercial use. FYI only)

*** is correct in his response where he states "The fact remains that not everyone is always completely satisfied" and I **** add that once in a great while you have dealings with a customer that there is no satisfying, as in this case.******** never raised his voice even after enduring verbal abuse for over 20 minutes and I might add that he offered several apologies to both of them. Nor did I, while attempting to talking on the phone with him and having the same type verbal assault offered to me. Mr. ****** is DIRECTLY responsible for his own perceived "appalling treatment here". I am protective of my very talented staff and abuse of my staff **** not be tolerated by anyone for any reason.
Being a professional, and being a highly Nationally Ranked repair facility (AOQ 98.09%) We work on literally a thousand cars a year and have been in business for over 34 years, we know how to handle claims and repair vehicles. We also know people. Mr. ****** may not have realized it when he was on our property. There are 3 High resolution cameras capturing 3 different angles in the area his car was sitting when he picked it up. (the long white one hanging down at the back of the building directly in front of where the car was sitting, zooms in and locks. You can see this camera from Pleasant St. It's resolution is so good you can actually see what people are saying) I highly recommend ************************. Being a professional, I would never call someone a liar. We also photo document every vehicle, in detail before, during and after repairs are completed.

******* apologized to you three times.

Mr. ****** is correct, we do have 10 Rental cars that we own. Most of which I loan to people as a customer service and convenience with no compensation. The rental I offered to Mrs. ****** before I drove her home myself was an *****************. (I am a concierge for **********, again as a convenience for my customers with no compensation from them)
That all being said, Mr. ****** issues with us is of a personal nature and not a professional one due to his repairs were completed and his issues resolved before he finally picked his vehicle up here at our shop. He was happy with the vehicle before I told him I wouldn't work for him again.
This situation may be resolved if Mr. ****** apologizes to Mr. ******* for his verbal abuses.
In this case. We were only asked to restore this vehicle back to it's pre loss condition, which we did, and more. The at fault Insurance Company is the only one who may or may not owe him any compensation.

Respectfully, ******* ******

09/30/2013Problems with Product / Service | Read Complaint Details
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Complaint
Took my car to Angie's for rust repair and had to take it back twice to get it redone and cleaned up. Still not cleaned up properly like promised.
Dropped car ***** ***** ***** ****** off 7/7/13 picked up 7/11/13 - oil seeping everywhere, white paint/buffing compound all over black right rear door handle, window guard, luggage rack, bumper step, rear windshield wiper tab, right rear mud flap. Paint was bubbled and had stuff stuck in it with runs and gouges that were previously not there. Received pink marker from **** on 7/12/13 around 4:45pm and she confirmed white speckles were buffing compound and promised they would all be removed, brought out liquid cleaner and shwowed me that was how and what is used to clean it, also made her aware of bad paint job and showed oil. She stated they put too much oil in was supposed to be thin coat and they would clean up the mess they made and that it shouldn't be running all down my running boards and down my doors. Returned car with pink arrows on 7/14/13. Picked car back up on 7/22/13 and to my surprise white speckles had not all been removed and oil was still on my car. Looked over paint job and it looks like an orange peal and is not consistent in color. White touch up paint was used on gouges. I called and spoke with owner ******* ******, whom was very short and not willing to help me. I explained tina telling me about the buffing compound and he stated it was not. He told me it was no where near the detail shop. But was informed when i picked it up the first time they had detailed it (washed, swept and seats wiped down). Told me he looked over the car and there were no white speckles. I tried explaining the paint that didn't look right and he pretty much told me he didn't know what i was talking about. I told him the white speckles were not there when i dropped the car off on 7/7/13 and he said that was to bad because they are not from his shop. He told me that i was not to concerned before about what my car looked like because of the rust that was there. I told him that is why i brought it to him to get it taken care of. I told him i would take a lunch and bring the car to him and he said he wasn't interested in seeing it. He didn't believe what i was telling him and that i had picked a bad morning to call him about the work his company performed on my vehicle and hung up on me. So i paid this man and his company for an unsatisfactory job and was trying to take it back to get it corrected for the third time with no success.

Desired Settlement
I will not be treated as a customer this poorly and made out to feel like a liar. ******* ****** has not performed a satisfactory service and will not honor his workmanship. I feel the disrepect as a business owner who is representing his company should not treat his customers the way i was treated. He should not have been short with me and listened a little better. Instead he didn't want to hear anything i had to say and kept telling me i was wrong. He ended the conversation stating that i had picked the wrong morning to call and hung up on me. Very disrespectful in his words and actions. I would like a full refund for my time they inconvenienced me without my vehicle having to have it there twice and for the poor quality of workmanship along with the poor handling of the customer service issue.

Business Response
Contact Name and Title: ******* ** ******
Contact Phone: ************
Contact Email: ******@angiesinc.com



Subj: Complaint XXXXXXXX

The customer left out some details when she wrote you her letter. Printed in the estimate she received when she first came into our shop, it is very clearly marked that there is NO WARRANTY on any kind of rust repair work, due to the nature of repairs to be done (unless a panel is completely replaced) because of a rust problem. This repair was NOT a restoration. It was a repair to clean up rust along the bottom edge of the rear tailgate and some paint chips below the rear gate glass. Since it was a Customer pay repair and not an Insurance pay repair, we were asked to keep the costs as low as possible. We wrote the estimate to repair this vehicle several months before the customer called us back to schedule the repairs. On the date of their appointment, the truck was dropped of at our shop the night before. The repairs were done as per the estimate. The rear gate was removed from the truck and the vehicle was then parked in our detail shop out of the way (in a separate building). The gate was stripped of all trim and glass, repairs were done and the gate was refinished on both sides in our spray booth. The gate was then buffed and re-assembled. The truck was driven back into the repair shop to have the gate re-installed. The truck was cleaned inside and out as is customary for our shop and delivered back to the customer. The customer also wanted rust-proofing to slow down an already rusting vehicle. We also explain to every customer that chooses this process of oiling there is a chance of oil/grease weeping in the hot weather for the first few days. It wipes right off. When repairs were first done she sent someone in to pick up the vehicle with a check for less than what was owed for the repairs. As it was, there was one more part that we had to buy to complete her repairs properly (the plastic rear wiper arm cracked during the removal process which happens sometimes, plastic ages poorly). When we called her about it prior to releasing the truck she was very rude and refused to pay us for the additional $67.97. We released the truck anyway. It also needs to be known she was very condescending and degrading to my estimator and staff throughout this whole process. She called the next day and expressed her disappointment with her repairs. Our estimator asked her to stop by with the truck for us to correct the problems. When she did we asked her to circle what she was unhappy with, with one of our water markers. She made marks everywhere, on the gate and on the rest of the truck...which we had not touched. In her remarks to you her issues are a longer list even than what she marked that day. I was out of the office when the vehicle was dropped, but I got a chance to look it over before anything was done. There were two very minor paint flaws in jamb areas. My estimator/shop manager told me the only way to make her happy was to completely refinish the gate again...inside and out. We removed the gate and again put the truck in the detail shop. We completely stripped and refinished the gate to make her happy...even though there was no warranty on this job; we tried very hard to make this right with her. We also took care of other things she had circled on the truck which were not part of the original repairs just to try to make this customer happy. We completed re-do repairs on her tailgate inside and out and did the absolute best we could do. In re-doing this we absorbed the labor expense, the paint and materials cost, and the emblems replacement on the outside which cannot be re-used in order to try and resolve her issues. As one can imagine, these expenses are not to be taken lightly. The customer asked that we leave the truck outside and it would be picked up after hours, which we did. She called the next morning; I answered this call, in which again she was very rude and condescending expressing her complaints which are now about parts of the truck we never touched since it was not in the repair shop during the repairs, I tried again in a calm demeanor to talk to her. (I now understood what my estimator/shop manager was telling me about this customer.) I realized we were never going to make her happy with this, and what she wanted was all of this rust repair work done for free..all along. It was at this point I conveyed my final comments to her, which was fueled by her approach of rude, condescending and degrading attitude through out this whole process, "she was no longer welcome here at my shop".

We are a small business and I understand very well that we are in a "service" industry. I also understand that I need to protect my team members from rude and condescending customers. There was absolutely no reason for this customer to act or treat us the way she has. I realize that we only repair cars and trucks here, and we are not accountants or lawyers, but we shouldn't be treated or talked down to like we are lesser people. Our company is in a small town and we are very popular in this small town. The reason for that is we have always taken very good care of our customers and I have always personally taken care of any misunderstandings or problems that may occur from time to time. We have been in business for 32 years, we have never had a customer problem we could not handle,...until this one. We did all we could do for her and she still was not satisfied.


******* ** ****** - *********

Final Consumer Response
I am not satisfied with his statement!!! I know what happened and the truth. I will no longer continue to fight him because it will just come back and bite him in the end. Like he told my husband....good help is hard to find and this is the best help i could find!!!

Small town business owners rely on their customers and word of mouth to keep business going. All it takes is one unhappy customer to shut a business down....simply by word of how terrible that customer was treated and the poor quiality of work.

Industry Comparison| Chart

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