I SIGNED A CONTRACT TO PURCHASE A NEW 30-12 ******* STITCHER PACKAGE. DEALER DELIVERED A DAMAGED MACHINE NEEDING REPAIRS.
Put a contract deposite down aug.31 2013 1,000 wanted to buy a machine right away so we could take lessons at the dealer then go home to practice, we were told they did not have any machines for sale they only buy machines after they were paid for ahead of time so we had to wait till oct.
paid cash transfer for contract sept.18 2013
our contract and verbal agreement was for a new ******* stitcher 30-12 system delivered in original box for evacuation as we had been evacuated for the fires past 2 summers also for flooding as my backyard sits on a flood canal.this was communicated very clearly as we need the original box for possible future evacuations.We had gone to ft. collins several times for computer instruction a this is a very advanced machine to learn in sept.many times we discussed disasters we coloradans have endured.
machine delivery set up on oct.5 2013
had confrontation with *** ****** about machine condition showed him the damaged and scratched items said he had just picked up from gammill and
this was a new machine. told him this was not right ,we totally disagreed on the condition of the machine,short of a heated exchange finished setup and paid the balance of 7362.25 I planned to complain to gammill for unpleasant experience.machine did not work properly due to damaged parts
serial number ~ ************
machine was also not installed properly as the upper bar was left lowered down on the quilting base so after 1 row the head would not move.
I had serious asthma attack mon. after delivery, called Gammill on oct 22 to ask for purchase date on machine I believe it could have been a rental due to the scratches.did not hear back, there was an international quilt market in houston starting oct 24th. we also attended gammill was represented also so delay in response was understandable
called Gammill again on nov.11 after stay in houston. **** ******** returned my call on the 15th or 18th listened to my concerns which were simple I thought, mom and I expected our machine to be delivered in a box and assembled there. **** told me they encourage all their dealers to deliver the machines in the original box but some prefer not to due to space. I said that if *** took the machine he delivered to me out of the box the damage is his responsibility not mine. I also gave him the purchase order number for the machine and serial number and asked when the dealer took posession of this machine because I did not think it was new.He said he would check a few things and get back to me that afternoon, he never did.
*** ****** called me back on the 22 of nov. denied of course there were ever any scratches or that there was a problem or that he had just picked up the machine from manufacturer but he did tell me the machine was a few months old they had it
sitting in the back room. I only believe he told me that due to **** ********s communication.I still believe it was a floor model as they had nothing to sell on oct. 31. admitted it was a few months old so they did not get it in sept.It was a very heated and unpleasant conversation.
on nov. 26 I called ***** ****** the other owner she had to call back that eve.said the machine was used and she would never take it back I could buy the replacement parts if I wanted. would not discuss our contract or agreement and expectations the day I signed the contract.I feel to this day they never completed the contract and what they did deliver did not meet the contract standards, we paid over 35000.00 dollars for a new machine FULL PRICE and did not expect a damaged machine that was not working properly without repairs.
There are no words to describe the dissapointment of this transaction.Worst experience ever. I have 6 other commercial machines all from Denver and never 1 issue.
dec.2 I recieved an e-mail from ****** ******** sales rep. for Gammill, they agreed to pay the replacement cost for the damaged parts under
warranty. I declined that offer contract not met
I want to have the head of the machine replaced with a new UNDAMAGED machine in original box.That is what was agreed upon by ***** ****** at our discussions for the package to purchase.I looked her straight in the face and told her we wanted our machine delivered in the original box and she said no problem. When you have a piece of machinery delivered out of it`s original carton as this was there are many dissputes as to it`s age, condition, or prior use. As we have 1 version of a story and their`s is totally different finding an amicable conclusion can be difficult. I have no reason to file false charges against this company I have admired for years waiting till I could afford to buy this machine with my mom. Had the dealer delivered the machine as they said they would none of this would be an issue and we would all still be friends.WE paid FULL price for the system and to get anything other than a new machine in it`s original packaging is unacceptable to us.
Some of the accessories, casters, lift were on sale from the manufacturer or the price would have been higher.
This has been very difficult to follow this path as this machine is very advanced it takes alot of instruction to learn and we have learned very little so to destroy the relationship we had with this buisness is very painful to us as we now have no way to learn how to use this machine to it`s potential other than to take weekend seminars out of state.
They had excellent customer service awards so we felt confident they would be great to work with and this is the best machine of it`s kind. Mom and I wanted the best for it`s diversity and limitless creativity.
I feel the machine they brought to us was such an insult and betrayal of the friendship we had started and in no way met the standard of new for the price paid.
it is very upsetting today to see this huge machine sitting in my home as a reminder of the deception instigated against us.
I feel asking for the sewing head to be replaced
fully justifiable as ***** agreed to our contract but did not honor the contract to it`s full proposal.
I have sent the complaint to the dealer and awaiting their paperwork. They are turning in a time line of actions taken along with communications. I will check in with them again to see if they have this completed.
Final Consumer Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
To BBB I need to know if I can fax paperwork as I do not know how to upload on this sight. thanks.
*****`s timeline is wrong as to our first conversations, I contacted her on Aug. 26th about purchasing a quilting machine. I let her know I have no computer skills so I would not only need to learn how to use the machine but also would need extensive computer training. She assured me that was no problem her staff was more than able to teach me , it would probably take more time than most new owners but were there to help any way they could. I would like to say the staff that did the training with us were fabulous, super friendly, and had the patience of a saint.
***** told me we needed to pay a deposite for the machine to start training so she sent the performa on Aug. 29th through e-mail(I can send a copy) we signed it and faxed it back and sent our. deposite. Mom and I wanted to purchase a machine right away so we could take lessons then go home to practice, ***** told me they did not stock machines as they were to expensive so only bought them as they were paid for.We could not get a machine in Sept. because *** had already left to get the sept. orders so we had to wait till Oct. I only say this again as They insisted at the delivery to my home that they had just purchased the machine and we now know it is several months old.
I believe they gave us this damaged used older machine based on my limited skills of not knowing how to use a computer and the Gammill quilting machine is a very advanced complex machine and for some can be difficult to learn.
I also dispute *****`s allegation that I never asked for the machine to be delivered in a box. She suggested on our 2nd visit that when our machine came in that they build it in the shop and we do our training there then take the machine home. I told her no that I wanted it delivered to my home in the box. WE had several conversations about all the flooding and evacuations, (I had already been evacuated 2 times) and I wanted the box for the machine head to take it with me in the future.
The machine head is the most expensive part of the quilting package with the computer so would take those if another evacuation was necessary.The table would be difficult to move in a hurry but being all steel could be restored, with some new parts after a flood. I have 5 other commercial sewing machines all do different functions and they are very heavy and large but they get packed up to go with me In their custom boxes . I do have family that helps with this process. I have been working for ************* Farm in Californis for over 15 years hence the need for many diverse machines. I also do custom sewing for people, ie. draperies , duvet covers, upholstery, etc. I will be happy to provide references of people I have worked for and the latest PO from ************* Farm I recently finished in Jan. I need my machines for my livlihood and take very good care of them, they are serviced by a company from Denver.
On my first conversation with the Gammill representative he told me they encourage all their dealers to deliver their products in the original packaging and most do.I told him I did not think it was right that I had to accept a damaged machine because the dealer decided to take the machine out of it`s original packaging. . I told him I did not think this was a new machine and It turns out the damaged machine delivered to me is not new.The box is not that big as one ordered for a previous customer by ***** ,fit easily in the back of my car.This person lived close to me so was happy to deliver it to her.Saved everyone else alot of time and gas.*****`s protestations that we never discussed having it delivered in a box are untrue.
I also think ***** and *** counted on my need to continue my training with them as an opportunity to get rid of this damaged machine from their shop as they could not sell the damaged machine as brand new to anyone else. I believe I would have had many more visits to learn how to use this machine,( it cost about 100.00 a day to drive up to their shop ~ tolls gas etc.) They ruined my ability to continue learning by delivering the damaged machine and insisting it was just purchased. Any future learning will be very costly and out of state.I have severe asthma so do not travel far from home, but as the condition of the machine is questionable I had to contest the transaction.
I do not accept Gammill`s offer to replace all the parts and paint which in itself belies the notion this is a brand new machine.WE paid ALOT of money for this package and although ***** and *** have great experiences with all their other clients, we did not experience that excellent service.
The damage on this machine was not caused by me, as this machine is made of steel and hardened aluminum it is vey hard to scratch, dent,& put gauges in the brackets. Nothing we were taught used the back hand grips everything is done from the front or side.This machine was dropped or had something extremely heavy fall on it. There is no way of knowing if this machine has any interior damage so I have no confidence that 1 month or 6 months from now this machine will not develope any problems. Who will be responsible then? The damage and repairs are not normal on a brand new machine. I believe I would have to incur any future costs of issues with this machine so have not used it, and dispute the validity of it`s newness.
In mid september I recieved an e-mail from Gammill advertising showing a new monitor available in the fall.( I was on their mailing list for new products, shows they would be at etc.) I had ordered a couple cd`s on their machines) At my next visit to jukebox I told ***** I saw the new monitor , could she add that to our bill and let me know what the increase in cost was. She said it did not exist there was nothing else. I described it ti her and she acted like she did not know what I was talking about. A couple weeks later at the international fall quilt market I went to the Gammill display and they had the new monitor. Mom and I were talking about it when a sales rep asked if she could help us. I told her we had just purchased a Gammill machine and was very dissapointed in who we bought it from. WE wanted this monitor and was told it did not exist even though I had recieved the info on it. She asked where we were from I told her, she said she was sorry for our experience and that was all that was said. I recieved the info on the new software updates a couple weeks ago I have the e-mails for both of these to forward.
During all of our visits for training( shared with other people (so we all sometimes had long wait periods) we did not have a machine till the last visit. The last visit was for computer work to down load all the software, patterns etc. It took along time, **** was so awesome, showed me how to download a purchased pattern to a usb stick and then we went over how to add items to the quilting machine computer. I brought a notebook ( to every session) to write each step out as there was so much info I could not take it all in. Even though I had already contacted Gammill about our machine I did not bring it up at the last visit as I spent my time with **** on the computer. I did not feel our dispute with ***** and *** had anything to do with them and did not need to involve them.
WE had 2 quilts on the machine the first one went over and over because we could not advance the rollers as they were not set up right and we did not know how to raise the bar till talking to another gammill owner.WE did not learn much on the operation adjustments on the machine as the focus so far had been on figuring out the computer. I`m sure that would have been a future class.
The call with ***** was very short, I called her in the am she called me that eve. the call was very short she did not need to calm me down I hardly said a word as she said nothing about the machine just all her customer service awards and the president of something, the machine was in my home and she would never take it back. I have copies of all the phone records and times of calls.
I did not wait 45 days to complain about the machine, because of the way our visit ended with the dispute with *** over the damage to the machine I called Gammill first. there were many delays in returned phone calls , people were out of town, there were alot of holiday plans that lengthened this process of all the communication.
Final Business Response
Attached is the Dealer's statement regarding their interactions with **** ****** (aka **** *****). As stated in our correspondence with **** ******, we offer replacement of the handle covers, wheel bracket and belt cover as a courtesy and encourage **** ****** to learn to care for her machine so she can minimize wear damage to her head in the future.
**** *****/******* Dispute Jan. 15, 2014
Early in Sept. of 2013 I had a phone conversation with ****, who was interested in a *******/Gammill quilting system. We invited her to come and quilt a small quilt to test the system.
On 9/11/2013, 9/18/2013 and 9/25/2013, 9/27/2013 **** came for full days of training. She completed several quilts with my assistance or with our wonderful staff trainers.
Please note: standard training by Gammill dealers consists of two days with other new owners, and an hour or two of additional training to help the customer load their first quilt and start stitching when the machine is delivered. Our dealership is the only one that provides unlimited training. We allow the customer to come as ofter as they like, and provide phone an email support whenever needed. As stated above, **** had four full days of training prior to delivery, and *** and **** assisted her in loading a quilt and stitching patterns during her delivery. She's also been back to our shop since then for additional training since. She was scheduled for 10/9/2013, but cancelled due to illness but did return 11/8/2013 (see below).
WE gave her a performa for a machine purchase on 9/18/2013 that was dated when it was created, 9/17/2013. she made it clear she wanted delivery as soon as possible.
At no point during any conversations with **** did we discuss that the machines "came in a box." The DO NOT come in boxes, as we've since repeatedly told her. The machines are trucked to our shop with the heads secured on specially constructed head shelves. Here is a photo of the last group of heads delivered to us after they were removed from the truck.
Boxing and crating is available for customer not served by Gammill's dealers, for example, customers outside the continental U.S. For domestic deliveries, there is an extra charge of $550 for this service. Extra freight also applies. A forklift is required to unload these crated components that total nearly 600 pounds and are over 14' long.
Head boxes are available for purchase from Gammill. They are shipped to customers at the customer's expense. We've picked one up for a customer because we had room in our trailer, and are willing to do the same for ****, room permitting. That said, in the event of an evacuation, attempting to dismantle the machine to remove the head, positioning the head inside specially constructed protective foam inserts, and having 3-4 individuals attempt to move the enormous head/box into a vehicle seems unwise in an emergency. Proper insurance should cover replacement costs in the event of a loss.
On Saturday, Oct. 5, 2013, *** ****** and ***** ***** delivered a brand new machine to ****'s house. She never indicated any dissatisfaction with the machine during the delivery. They were there well over six hours, and assisted **** in loading fabric layers and stitching out designs. **** provided them with lunch, and told them she was very anxious to begin quilting. At no point did she indicate she was less than satisfied. *** specifically asked her if she was happy with everything before they left, she stated she was. She did pay the balance of the machine.
At the end of October, **** attended an international quilt show in Houston, Texas. She visited the Gammill booth, and when she came in for additional day of training on 11/8/2013, she relayed to our staff that she asked many questions about an upcoming software upgrade and possible hardware equipment changes. To our knowledge, she never expressed dissatisfaction about her delivery at the Houston show, and we know she never indicated any dissatisfaction with her machine while here training; on the contrary, she reported that she'd completed 3-4 quilts.
On 11/22/2013 we were informed by Gammill that **** had complained about her machine. *** phoned her, and she became extremely heated, accusing us of providing her with a used machine. She reported that the "needle plate" had a scratch and that a rear foam handle cover was torn. As we were certain the machine was in perfect condition upon deliver, we asked her to send photos. She stated that she lacked the skills to do so. I phoned her the next day, ans was also subjected to heated accusations that she'd received a used machine. She stated to me that she'd done 3 or 4 quilts, and that there were now 600,000 stitches on the computer, which is consistent with the number of quilts she claimed to have completed. In both conversations, we made every attempt to calm her and find out what the specific issues were. I also requested photos and was told she was unable to do send them.. We offered to send a new needle plate and foam handle, but **** informed us she would only settle for a "new machine in a box." I also asked why she had waited 46 days to let us know she wasn't happy. She stated that she had let us know the day of the delivery,which is simply not true.
Over Thanksgiving holiday, we corresponded with Gammill about this situation.
On 11/28/2013, we received images from ****. These images confirmed our thoughts that the scratch/es she referred to were on the bed of the machine, and the tear in the foam handle, and are user caused.
When one loads a quilt, the bar is adjusted to be approximately 1/2" above the surface of the bed. As the quilt is advanced, it is rolled onto this Pick Up Roller. The more quilt that is rolled on the Pick Up Bar/Roller, the larger the Pick Up Bar diameter becomes, so the roller is elevated with the use of a handle on the left side of the machine. There are three hand wheels used to advance the quilt, and then one moves their right hand to the vertical handle that lifts the Pick Up Bar, and twists it. This series of steps should be completed every time the quilt is advanced.
Additional scratches will occur on the bed (not to be confused with the needle plate). From ****'s complaint to the MO BBB, she clearly still does not understand that raising the take up bar is necessary, and is a function she must perform continually. This is not an issue that the dealer sets it and that it doesn't change, as she indicated in her complaint. This is an ongoing responsibility of machine operator. It is probably one of the top fie most basic functions of use of the machine, right up there with turning on the all components, threading and oiling.
**** received a brand new machine, in perfect condition. there is no reason she can't be using the machine full time. We liken this situation to one where someone purchased a car, drove it with t he emergency brake engaged, waited 46 days to complain, and has demanded a brand new car because of damage to the brakes. Despite not covering these items on warranty, we and Gammill have offered to replace the handle, wheel brakes, and belt cover that she is concerned about in our shop. She can obtain touch up paint from Gammill fix the scratches. We are not comfortable entering her home. Up until recently, we would have happily responded to her usage questions by email so that all correspondence could documented. Given her inaccurate version of all of our contact with her, even when several of us were present at the same time, none of us feel safe corresponding by phone or in person.
Pleas don't hesitate to let us know if additional documentation is necessary. We'd also be happy to provide letters of reference from any of our other customers. **** is the first customer we've had in our three years of business with Gammill who is not completely satisfied.
Thank you for your consideration
***** *********-****** and *** ******
(BBB comment - see attached documents and photos)