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Complaint Detail(s)

2/5/2014 Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details
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Additional Notes

Complaint: Did not fix leaky gutter. Damaged my property. Did not refund to cover the cost of the damage. Tried to over charge. Hung up when complaint registered ***, proprietor of TNT Rain Gutters, Inc, gave me an estimate of $200 to stop a downspout leak on the patio and a gutter leak at the carport on the side of the house. We agreed to doing the job beginning at 8:00 AM on 10/14/13. He arrived more than 30 minutes late, began working but was continually interrupted by phone calls and conversations. He recommended a rain chain for the patio, something I can do myself. He worked on the carport and installed a downspout. He left the property for more than 3 hours, returned and spent a great deal of time on the phone. When he left for this interruption of work, he scraped and damaged my retaining wall. I gave him materials to repair it and said I would paint it. The damage was greater than what how showed me because it was hidden by his truck. At the end of the day, he presented me with a bill for $255. I said the estimate was for $200, and he did not spend much time working on my gutters. Angrily, he changed the bill to $200. The next day I still had a leak, and I discovered 3 broken bricks that are inlaid along the driveway where he parked. I called him, complaining about the bricks. He admitted doing the damage and offered to fix it. He added that I got "a heck of a deal". I told him he worked less than two hours, I still have the leak, and he damaged my property. He hung up on me. The next day I called and left him a message requesting a refund to cover damages and to fix my leak. He waited 2 weeks and cashed my check. He did not return my call or offer a refund.

Desired Settlement: I want a full refund less the cost of materials, which was one new downspout and 4 straps (he used existing old and dirty connectors and angle pieces).

Business Response: To: BBB
From: *** ***** ******
Date: 11/17/2013
Re: Rebuttal a customer complaint
Rebuttal to customer complaint
Rebuttal to complaint from 6321 South Lark park drive, Sacramento
I arrived at the job site at 8:30. The customer instructed me to park the "TNT Rain gutters" truck in a narrow drive way were I scraped a stucco wall. The customer had repair material and I spent about an hour patching over the scrapes. Customer said he would paint it when it cures.
The customer wanted me to install three down spouts on two aluminum car ports that had the downspouts missing. We agreed to a price of 200.00 to create and install downspouts and outlets. When working I carry a cell phone to answer short business calls. I spent less than one hour total on the phone.
The customer said the gutter channels on the porch awnings where leaking. I discovered they were not leaking but were filled with debris, plugged up, and overflowing. I spent two hours cleaning out the gutter channels with a leaf blower then I cleaned off the back yard and sides of the house. Since cleaning the gutters and back yard was not in the original agreement I felt it would be fair to add 55.00 to the bill. When I examined the back yard awning I determined it was not feasible to install a new downspout on the awning post. I recommended a solution of installing an attractive Japanese Rain Chain. Customer said he wanted to buy and install it himself.
When I began work on the second awning I needed some materials. at 12:00 pm, I decided to leave for lunch and search for down spout material. I spent 2 hours driving to supply houses to find the correct part to do the installation properly. I spent about 3 hours installing the two down spouts.
When I finished the job I presented the customer with a bill for 255.00. The customer said we agreed he was to pay 200.00. It is not my policy to argue with the customer so I rewrote the bill and he gave me a check for 200.00.
A week passed and I received a call from the customer saying I cracked a brick in his driveway, where he instructed me to park the truck. I don't know if the brick was broken before or after I parked in the driveway, but I offered to take care of the damage. The customer declined. Even though was on his insistence that I park in his driveway in the first place. He wanted a full refund of the 200.00.But I refused because the customer's complaint had nothing to do with the work I did.

*** ***** ****
TNT Rain Gutters
639 52nd Street
Sacramento, CA. 95819
H: 916-454-9034
C: 916-202-2926

Consumer Response: (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I asked Mr. ***** to give me an estimate to fix 2 gutter leaks I was experiencing: one at the down spout at the edge of the patio, the other along the outer edge of the carport. We talked about cleaning the gutters in those areas, redirecting and strapping an existing downspout and installing a second downspout in the carport.

Mr. ***** disassembled the patio connector, determined the best fix would be a rain chain and blew the dry leaves from the gutter. His recommendation was well received and I have since installed a rain chain. He left the dry leaves on the patio for us to clean up. Further, we removed the partially decomposed leaves from the gutter after his departure. He spent less than 30 minutes on this project including his phone calls.

Since he knew what would be required for the carport fix, I was surprised he didn't come prepared with the required materials. Nevertheless, there are at least 3 retail shops within 5 miles who sell gutter materials, including Home Depot. He blew the gutter out as agreed, and left the dried leaves on the deck. There was no composted or thick debris. I told him to blow the leaves off the deck, which he did reluctantly. He blew them along side the fence rather than clean them up.

Unfortunately, he did not repair the leak. I will hire another person to install flashing to repair the roof/gutter.

When Mr. ***** arrived, I told him he could back into the driveway to make it easier on him. He said that would save him a lot of steps. I assumed he had the necessary expertise to drive his own truck, and could safely handle backing into a driveway that is 9 ft 3 inches wide at its narrowest. I was wrong because he scraped the retaining wall. I did not insist he park in the driveway. Why would I?

The maximum time he spent on the carport was 2 hours. His phone was ringing off the hook. I tried to talk to him one time and he cautioned me with an aside that he needed time to talk to this customer or he might loose a potential client. He was on the phone constantly.

After he left, I saw fresh breaks on 3 inlaid bricks in the driveway. I called him and told him not to cash the check because we needed to reconcile the damage he did. He admitted breaking them, offered to fix the bricks, but I declined not trusting his workmanship by then.

I would have agreed to pay for his expenditure for materials, but since we had to finish cleaning the gutters, his leak repair didn't work, I have to hire someone else to complete the job, and in light of the damage he inflicted on my property, I think it appropriate for him to rerun the full amount paid, $200.00.

Mr. ****** workmanship is questionable because he did not fix the leak. His business practices are questionable because he has not taken responsibility for the damage he did. Further, he hung up on me when I registered a complaint. Nor did he return a call to me.

Consumer Response: I have not received a response from this company. I have expended $125 additionally to fix the leak. I hereby request a full refund.

Consumer Response: (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
1. A third party confirmed the leaks were coming from dried caulking along the edge of the carport gutter. The caulking has since been removed and replaced, fixing the leaks. I have a disability and do not climb ladders. But I understand the problem was readily visible from where Mr. ***** was on his ladder.

2, 3. I concur with Mr. ***** that a rain chain is the best solution to the patio downspout. He spent 15 to 20 minutes on this project, including blowing the dry leaves onto the patio. He did not remove any decomposed material (my wife did that a week later) nor did he clean the leaves up in the entire back yard or on the side of the house. I had to ask him to blow the leaves off the patio and off the deck on the side of the house. He blew the patio leaves onto the pool cover, and the deck leaves against the fence. That was OK by me. I just wanted them moved so they wouldn't track into the house. He seemed irritated when I asked him to do this clean-up, even though it took him less than 10 minutes.

4. The required parts are ordinary and readily available. Most of them were already on the premises. I expected him to inventory the parts when he gave me an estimate, and bring missing parts with him when he came to do the job. He was gone for 3 hours. I should not be charged for his inefficiencies. His estimate was obviously without foundation.

5. The purpose of hiring Mr, ***** was to repair a gutter leak. He should have been the first one to call out the problem with the dried caulking and installing flashing as a solution. He is demonstrating a lack of knowledge or an oversight on his part. I should not pay for these faults.

5. (sic) If Mr. ***** did not feel comfortable backing his truck into my driveway, or does not have the skill to handle his truck in this situation, he should have declined my offer and parked on the street. If he were on the street and damaged public property because of his inability to properly drive his vehicle, he would be financially responsible. He is certainly financially responsible to me for the damage he did to my property.

6. The day after Mr. ***** left, I saw the broken bricks where his truck was. I was angry because they were where he couldn't help but see them. So I waited one day before I called him. I told him not to cash the check, that he owes me for damages, He hung up on me. About 3 weeks later he cashed the check, and I initiated this complaint.

7. Mr. ***** was on the phone and not working most of the time he was here, and he was gone for 3 hours in the middle of the day. He was engaged in gutter labor for a little over 1.5 hours. By his own admission he spent a good deal of time repairing my retaining wall that he hit. He also admitted on the phone with me that he broke the bricks in my driveway. After all was said and done, my gutter still leaked, my retaining wall needed painting, and my driveway was damaged. A full refund is in order.

BBB's Final Determination: After reviewing the position of all parties, BBB determined that the business made a reasonable effort to address the complaint. However the consumer remains dissatisfied.

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