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Forte Holdings Inc.

Phone: (916) 673-4850 Fax: (509) 756-1435 View Additional Phone Numbers 5137 Golden Foothill Pkwy Ste 110, El Dorado Hills, CA 95762 http://www.chiro8000.com


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BBB Accreditation

A BBB Accredited Business since

BBB has determined that Forte Holdings Inc. meets BBB accreditation standards, which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints. BBB Accredited Businesses pay a fee for accreditation review/monitoring and for support of BBB services to the public.

BBB accreditation does not mean that the business' products or services have been evaluated or endorsed by BBB, or that BBB has made a determination as to the business' product quality or competency in performing services.


Reason for Rating

BBB rating is based on 13 factors. Get the details about the factors considered.

Factors that raised the rating for Forte Holdings Inc. include:

  • Length of time business has been operating
  • Complaint volume filed with BBB for business of this size
  • Response to 4 complaint(s) filed against business
  • Resolution of complaint(s) filed against business


Customer Complaints Summary Read complaint details

4 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 4 closed in last 12 months
Complaint Type Total Closed Complaints
Advertising/Sales Issues 0
Billing/Collection Issues 0
Delivery Issues 0
Guarantee/Warranty Issues 0
Problems with Product/Service 4
Total Closed Complaints 4

Customer Reviews Summary Read customer reviews

0 Customer Reviews on Forte Holdings Inc.
Customer Experience Total Customer Reviews
Positive Experience 0
Neutral Experience 0
Negative Experience 0
Total Customer Reviews 0

Additional Information

BBB file opened: December 29, 2003 Business started: 01/01/2006 Business started locally: 01/01/2006 Business incorporated 02/08/2006 in CA
Type of Entity

Corporation

Business Management
Mr. Anthony Shwartz, President
Contact Information
Principal: Mr. Anthony Shwartz, President
Business Category

Computer Software Publishers & Developers


Additional Locations

  • 5137 Golden Foothill Pkwy Ste 110

    El Dorado Hills, CA 95762 (800) 456-2622

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BBB Customer Review Rating plus BBB Rating Overview


BBB Customer Reviews Rating represents the customers opinions of the business. The Customer Review Rating is based on the number of positive, neutral and negative customer reviews posted that are calculated to produce a score.

Customer Review Experience Value
Positive Review 5 points per review
Neutral Review 3 points per review
Negative Review 1 point per review

BBB letter grades represent the BBB's opinion of the business. The BBB grade is based on BBB file information about the business. In some cases, a business' grade may be lowered if the BBB does not have sufficient information about the business despite BBB requests for that information from the business.
Details

BBB Letter Grade Scale

BBB Rating Value
A+ 5
A 4.66
A- 4.33
B+ 4
B 3.66
B- 3.33
C+ 3
C 2.66
C- 2.33
D+ 2
D 1.66
D- 1.33
F 1
NR -----
Star Rating scale

  Average Score
5 stars 5.00
4.5 stars 4.50-4.99
4 stars 4.00-4.49
3.5 stars 3.50-3.99
3 stars 3.00-3.49
2.5 stars 2.50-2.99
2 stars 2.00-2.49
1.5 stars 1.50-1.99
1 star 0-1.49

BBB Customer Review Rating plus BBB Rating is not a guarantee of a business' reliability or performance, and BBB recommends that consumers consider a business' BBB Rating and Customer Review Rating in addition to all other available information about the business. If the BBB Rating is NR then only Customer Reviews are used for the Star Rating.

Complaint Detail(s)

5/1/2015 Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details
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Additional Notes

Complaint: I purchased the Forte EMR program under the impression it was fully operational, it was to be compatible with their Chiro 8000 billing program, which we had used for a number of years. We had two one hour trainings over the phone with the technical department. Once working with the program we found numerous problems. Some were handled quickly or we were advised how to change what we needed to. When examining SOAP notes printed out to send to an insurance company, numerous grammatical/punctuation errors were found and information was not printing out correctly from a pain index that the patient filled out. These SOAP notes were sent to the insurance company before we were aware of these errors, this puts us in a legal situation of reporting incorrect information. The index rating errors have been resolved, however the grammatical/punctuation errors still have not been after 2 months.When there were filed and rejected insurance claims because of incorrect diagnosis listed, we realized that the complete diagnoses were not completely transferring to the billing system from the EMR system. We also advised tech support of this, we were told that they were aware of this problem and were working on it. That was 5 weeks ago, it is still not fixed. If Forte was aware of this problem when we purchased it, why were we not informed? These errors have created an enormous amount of time lost in verifying files before they leave our office. After using this system and becoming aware of more problems, not to mention how user unfriendly it is, the question arises of how many more are there that we are not aware of yet. The liability that these issues place on me is frightening. If Forte knew of issues needing correction because of liability, customers should have been advised. On March 24 a message was left on the president's voice mail to call me. A customer service girl called instead. He finally returned the call on Saturday, 4-11 at 8:48pm. His concern is overwhelming.

Desired Settlement: Ideally it would be nice to have a refund, however, I do not want to continue making payments and want out of this situation. I will be more than happy to return the software.

Business Response:

Complaint ID: 1*******

 

 

To Whom It May Concern,

 

                We are writing to address the concerns submitted by Dr. ***** *********. Dr. ********* purchased FortéEMR on 12/22/2014 which includes two years of technical support. While we strive to produce a seamless, user-friendly product, we do often release updates to improve the software. The issues that have been reported to us will become available within the next update of the software.

 

                Dr. ********* has reported to us that there are grammatical and punctuation errors when printing SOAP notes. Since the time the issue was reported, we began implementing changes to be available in an upcoming build of the software. The SOAP notes are exported from FortéEMR into Microsoft Word. The end-user has the ability to modify any errors prior to printing and sending to patients. These errors can be found when performing the “spell-check” feature within Microsoft Word. The product build has been completed by engineering, but before we release to our clients, we must ensure that it passes each phase of software testing thereafter. Since this relies on all areas of the program function as intended, there is no definite ETA as to when this will be released. As mentioned, the items expressed within the client’s letter, are prepared to launch within a future update. Once this becomes available, the update will be released automatically and the client will be notified upon launching the software. We do still recommend that the office utilizes the “spell-check” feature prior to submitting to patients. Dr. ********* may contact the technical support department to discuss any other requests that may come up in the future.

 

Please allow this letter to serve as documentation that we have been acting in good faith to resolve any reported issues from our clients. The issues portrayed will be resolved within the next releases of the software. We do hope that Dr. ********* will contact us directly and allow us the opportunity to resolve any future issues should they arise.

 

 

Respectfully,

 

 

***** ******

 

Business Response:

Complaint ID: 1*******

 

 

To Whom It May Concern,

 

                We are writing to address the concerns submitted by Dr. ***** *********. Dr. ********* purchased FortéEMR on 12/22/2014 which includes two years of technical support. While we strive to produce a seamless, user-friendly product, we do often release updates to improve the software. The issues that have been reported to us will become available within the next update of the software.

 

                Dr. ********* has reported to us that there are grammatical and punctuation errors when printing SOAP notes. Since the time the issue was reported, we began implementing changes to be available in an upcoming build of the software. The SOAP notes are exported from FortéEMR into Microsoft Word. The end-user has the ability to modify any errors prior to printing and sending to patients. These errors can be found when performing the “spell-check” feature within Microsoft Word. The product build has been completed by engineering, but before we release to our clients, we must ensure that it passes each phase of software testing thereafter. Since this relies on all areas of the program function as intended, there is no definite ETA as to when this will be released. As mentioned, the items expressed within the client’s letter, are prepared to launch within a future update. Once this becomes available, the update will be released automatically and the client will be notified upon launching the software. We do still recommend that the office utilizes the “spell-check” feature prior to submitting to patients. Dr. ********* may contact the technical support department to discuss any other requests that may come up in the future.

 

Please allow this letter to serve as documentation that we have been acting in good faith to resolve any reported issues from our clients. The issues portrayed will be resolved within the next releases of the software. We do hope that Dr. ********* will contact us directly and allow us the opportunity to resolve any future issues should they arise.

 

 

Respectfully,

 

 

***** ******

 

1/28/2015 Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details
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Additional Notes

Complaint: Chiro 8000 software was misrepresented to me during the sales process and does not do what I need it to do and told the sales person I needed it to do. I was told it could create a list of claims that are unsettled. It can not. It does not list any claim or bill that has received any partial payment, even a penny,on it. Any partial balance will not come up on the list. To identify partially unpaid bills you have to go through each patient one by one and go through all their bills and check to see if they have a balance. To make that even harder, the patient history has no means to separate out paid bills and unpaid bills, therefore you have to go through each one, one by one. I was also told that it could create patient statements. It can not produce a patient statement for a given day. It shows a running balance of charges that are not even on the bill. How can you hand a patient a bill when the balance does not reflect the charges on the bill?I have spoken with the director, their tech specialist, and left messages for the owner. After going through my complaints for 2 hours the tech specialist confirmed my complaints to be accurate and was heard to say "It is a reasonable request to expect to be able to create an accurate patient statement..." Yet not reasonable enough to get a refund. The owner and director have not returned my calls and I was told by the sales person they have a no refund policy.The sales person denies misrepresenting the product yet has nothing to say when told she told me it could give me a list of unsettled bills. She changes the subject to their no refund policy. Lots of deflecting away when asked a straight forward question.The director told me that if what I say is true the product is defective and put me with tech. Their tech person ascertained it was true, and confirmed that is how the product is designed.I suspect if they could not easily determine what bills they are due payment on easily and quickly they would be equally unhappy.

Desired Settlement: I want my money returned, $514.95I want to add we were charged for this product on 10/4/14. But did not receive it until 2 weeks later. It was mailed to us. Then it took us a bit to upload and start to learn how to do things. It was also difficult getting through to tech support, we were often on hold for over an hour and often disconnected while on hold. This delayed identifying problems and making complaints.

Business Response:

To Whom It May Concern:

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to provide further clarification and to demonstrate that we have not misrepresented our product. We have been fully transparent with the software representation and even acknowledged that the software does not do what Dr. **** is requesting. Our sales process is not misleading, nor is our product website listing all features.

December 9th, two months after the initial purchase, was the first incident where Dr. **** requested information on the patient statements feature. Although patient statements can be created, she was not satisfied with the way information was displayed. The patient statements may not be to her satisfaction, but technical support spent additional time with her to ensure that she was fully trained on what this feature can do. Additionally, the option to submit a change request was offered. However, she declined. Included on Page 2 of this letter, is a copy of the Chiro8000 Professional Edition feature list. The feature list simply states, "Print patient statements," and has not been embellished to say it does anything more than that. If specific information was required, it would be the responsibility of the consumer to request this information prior to purchase. Since Dr. ****'s specific needs in this area did not come up during the sales process, there was no false representation of the product.

While we certainly are not perfect, we have not misled this client in any way. If there are additional questions, I may contacted at ###-###-####.

Respectfully,

***** ******

Consumer Response: I am rejecting this response because:

I am rejecting this response because:

1. One could say that their software does produce a patient statement, the complaint is it does not produce an ACCURATE patient statement. This software can not produce a statement for a given date of service for a patient that shows an accurate balance for that day. It instead shows a running balance that does not coincide at all with the list of charges for that day. For example, the statement may show a total charge for the day for $90 but a balance of $1000. When in fact the patient may only be responsble for $8. It is unacceptable to receive a bill with a balance larger than the listed charges and a balance that is not even remotely close to what you actually owe. If you got a bill from a doctor saying your balance is $1000 but it only lists $90 worth of charges I think you would have a few questions.

Ms. ****** says below that their product does produce a patient statement but I "...was not satisfied with the way the information was displayed.". This is a false statement. You can confirm this yourself by reading my complaint. My complaint is not about display it is about the fact that it DOES NOT SHOW ACCURATE INFORMATION ON THE PATIENT STATEMENT. There is a huge difference in those two statements. It seems Ms. ****** is not only misrepresenting their product but me as well. Lots of clouding and distracting from the actual topic here.

2. Ms. ****** is correct that she insist I speak with her tech pro to resolve this issue. She felt that what I claimed could not possibly be true and wanted her tech pro to confirm that I was using the product correctly. Ms. ****** had also said that what I said could not be true and if it was it was because the product was defective. Two hours of my time was wasted on the phone only for in the end the tech pro to acknowledge that I was using the product correctly and all I said was true. He also confirmed that the product was not defective but truly did NOT have the features I was told it had.

When the tech pro first got on the call he seemed very confident that he could create an accurate patient statement. When he realized he could not he seemed rather surprised. So it seems the employees of this company have little knowledge about the product they are selling as neither Ms. ******, the tech pro, nor the sales rep, seemed aware of these flaws, or perhaps, once again were misleading me to believe they had no such knowledge.

3. When the tech pro acknowledged the fact that the software could not produce an accurate patient statement, he did offer to "try" and see if he could get his engineers to rewrite the software to correct it. I did decline this offer for a number of reasons. First, I needed software right away. I was not in a position to wait months or years for them to redesign their product. Secondly, who knew if they ever actually would! Who was to say that a month or year later they wouldn't tell me that they can't or won't or whatever. Third, I did not see a reason to put my trust into a company that had already misprepresented themselves. Lastly, it still did not address the other issues I had raised with them, and even with the one correction would have left me with problematic software.


4. One has to ask the question why Ms. ****** would say in her response that nothing was wrong with their software but they offered to redesign it for me. Why would they do that unless they saw there was a problem. Ms. ****** can't have it both ways, she can't say nothing was wrong AND they offered to rewrite their system for me but I declined. Doesn't add up.

5. Ms. ****** also states below "...that the software does not do what Dr. **** is requesting." Once again there seems to be some misleading or clouding of the issues going on here. The complaint is not that it doesn't do what I would like it to do, the complaint is that THE SOFTWAWARE DOES NOT DO WHAT THEY CLAIMED IT WOULD DO. There is a huge difference in those two statements with much different implications. It seems Ms. ****** is either trying to cloud the issue or mislead the BBB, because my complaint is clear. It is not about not getting what I want, IT IS ABOUT NOT GETTING WHAT I WAS TOLD I WOULD GET.

6. It is not unreasonable to assume that when one is told, or it is stated in written literature, that the product can produce a patient statement that it will be an accurate one. The onus is not on the consumer at that level to seek further clarification but on the company to provide an accurate statement about their product. Therefore I fully disagree with Ms. ****** that it is the responsibility of the consumer to have to question that statement further.

7. Ms. ****** seems to have been remiss in addressing the other issues in my complaint. She does not respond to the fact that I was clearly told by sales that the software could produce a list of outstanding bills. After 2 hours with the tech pro he discovered and acknowledged that the software does not have that feature at all in any capacity. He did try to upsale me by telling me that by spending more money with them I could get that feature. Is that called bait and switch? Or is that plain fraud? Regardless, it certainly is misrepresenting the product when I was told it did have that feature before purchase. This is something that when the sale person was specifically asked later would not deny...nor admit, she just changed the subject and refused to answer the question.

8. There are numerous other problems with this product that could also be considered misrepresentation. For instance they claim it can print out insurance claims. Insurance claims require the month, day, and year to be presented in 2 digit format each. Forte's product prints the year in 4 digits. This has resulted in mulitple denials from Empire Insurance Co. of New York. Why someone wouldn't look at the very form they are making software for is beyond me but it seems this product was put together in a very sloppy half hazard way. The list goes on but this should suffice in supporting my claim.

The truth is they misrepresented the product and then spiraled into more questionable behaviour when confronted. They should have the integrity to take responsibility for that and perhaps use the information to better their product. At the very least the public should be aware of their ways.

I do not accept Ms. ******'s response as it simply has not addressed the actual complaints. She is addressing issues I never spoke of. Her response seems to be an attempt to cloud the issues and twist the complaint. The complaint is clear and stands as is.


Dr. ****

Business Response:

To Whom It May Concern:

We continue to support our previous statement as we have not misrepresented the software in any way. Within the response from Dr. ****, she claims that certain areas of the program are inaccurate or unavailable. However, that is not the case. The program does include the features included in our written literature and is designed to abide by the claim requirements set by the National Uniform Claims Committee (NUCC).

Chiro8000 does print patient statements with accurate information. Included on page 2 of this letter is an example of a patient statement. Here you will see the patient portion clearly displayed as $35.00. Dr. **** is asking that the insurance company portion, in this case $65.00, does not display on this statement and therefore, is not satisfied with the display. All information is displayed accurately and is working as intended. While we disagree that this will not display according to her unique wants, us offering to consider a request to change this area is not an indication that there is a 'problem' within the software. We did not claim the software would do anything other than print statements, which it does. In addition, it does include accurate information as proven by page 2. The question of ommitting specific information from the statement was never asked by Dr. **** prior to purchase; there would have been no opportunity to provide misleading information.

It is istated by the client that we told her she can produce a list of outstanding bills. This is true and the software does product such list. To address this concern, please see page 3 of this letter as proof that the feature exist within Chrio8000. Dr. **** indicates a requirement for a 2 digit year. As mentioned, our software is designed to abide by all guidelines of the NUCC. Included on pages 4-7 are direct instructions from the NUCC and can be found at:

http://www.nucc.org/%5Cimages%5Cstories%5CPDF%5C1500_claim_form_instruction_manual_2012_02.pdf. Each of these pages will indicate that a 4 digit year is required. However, if Dr. **** wishes to bypass these requirement the option is available prior to printing the insurance claims, see page 8. In regards to printing and submitting claims, we are happy to extend further training to Dr. **** to ensure that she is fully aware of the settings available within Chrio8000.

We do not understand that Dr. ****'s wants are slightly different from our standard setup, which is why the option for a change request is available. Offering this option should not imply that we are making an attempt to mislead clients or the Better Business Bureau. We stand by our product and do not practice bait and switch tactics as all literature about the program is readily available to anyone prior to purchase. If Dr. **** wishes to take advantage of our support and training offer, we ask that she please call us to move forward. You may also call us with any further questions pertaining to this case at ###-###-####.

Sincerely,

***** ****

 

Consumer Response:

I am rejecting this response because:

Dear BBB,The response from Angie Funk is misleading and wrong. Therefore I do not accept their response.

1.) The page they sent you shows a patient statement of one office visit. The problem with their software is the fact that if a patient had been in more than once, then the running balance is what shows for the patient balance. AFTER THE FIRST VISIT ONE CAN NOT PRODUCE AN ANCCURATE PATIENT STATEMENT FOR ONE GIVEN DATE.  It will always show a running balance. For example if the patient had been in five times and I wanted to create a statement showing what they owed for the 5th visit only, their software does not do that. I was told it did. that is misleading and perhaps fraudulent.

This is a transparent attempt to try and mislead once again. A pattern here for sure.  

Additionally, they are attempting to address problems which I do not have. I have never stated that "...the insurance company portion, in this case $65 does not display on this statement....". I think Angie needs to familiarize herself with my complaint more thouroughly. Or perhaps this is part of their clouding and distracting from the real issues at hand. Anyone can review my complaint and see what she says is not true or in my complaint. These are NOT THE ISSUES.  So once again they have not begun to address my real complaints which is why this complaint stands.

Further, if that is what they are offering to correct I am glad I did not take them up on it because that is not the problem.   Their own tech expert, that they insisted I spend 2 hours with, admitted that it in fact show a running balance and could not create an accurate balance for a patient that has been in more than once.  Which is why he offered to submit a request to correct their software. Which once again, I am not interested in waiting for them to recreate their program. I was told it could do something it does not. Its that simple.

2.)  To address the issue of producing a list of outstanding claims, THAT INCLUDE PARTIALLY PAID BILLS, is not possible with this software. Once again, their tech expert confirmed this and said that feature was available in a higher end product they offer that I could pay more money to have. Bait and switch.

So what ever she attached to this was not created with the software I purchased and that was confrimed by their own tech expert. On the other hand it is my understanding that the product I purchased CAN produce a list of outstanding bills AS LONG AS NO PARTIAL PAYMENT HAS BEEN MADE. I was told that if even 1 penny was paid on the bill and the outstanding balance is $1000 it will not show up on the list. Being a doctor it is very common that one is receiving payment from both a patient and an insurance company, so most bills have partial outstanding balances.

What matters here is that I was told it could produce a list of ALL outstanding bills. It can not. Only bills with no payments whatsoever. So their page 3 of their attachment does not address the complaint....again. Therefore complaint stands.

 

3.) In reference to the issue of filling out an insurance claim properly with a 2 digit year versus a 4 digit year......I never asked if their software complied with NUCC requirements. I asked the sales person if it could properly fill out an insurance form. A HCFA form to be exact. She said "Yes". To fill out an insurance form properly you need a 2 digit year. Doesn't matter if if it is okay with NUCC, it is not how the form is designed. My question was based on the form, the answer I received was in reference to the form. As they have admitted here, their software does not do that because it prints out a 4 digit year which results in insurance companies denying the claim.So, again, they did not address the complaint.

The complaint was NOT that it doesn't comply with NUCC requirements. THE COMPLAINT WAS THAT IT DOES NOT FILL OUT AN INSURANCE FORM PROPERLY.

4.) Last but not least they invite me to call them to straighten this out. I actually have several dozen calls into them, including three to the owner of the company. I have not received a return phone call to any of my calls to date. So their invite is also transparently false and meaningless.

As far as further training goes, I have already spent countless hours on the phone with their tech support. They in turn told me all of what I claim is an accurate description of their software. So clearly training is not the solution here. Nor is it my request.

The catagorically misprepresented their product. Some courts of law might consider this fraud. Regardless, it is wrong and unethical.

Given that they still have not addressed my true complaints my complaint stands.

They have done nothing here but address issues that they have fabricated to distract from the initial complaint.

Dr. **** ****

 

 

 

 

 

12/20/2014 Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details
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Additional Notes

Complaint: I purchased this system believing what they told me - they would take care of any problems. Not true. It is definitely a BAIT & SWITCH scam (as I read on another complaint from someone else). There is no better way to put it. They promise you the world and then take it away, or now you must pay for each little item you need. They have you by the proverbial 'short hairs'. They still have not fixed our problems from the beginning(our alleged complimentary trial period). We never knew about this trial period until we didn't have it. The woman I spoke to(from what I could understand - she did not speak English very well - and is in customer service)said you must pay for this, you must pay for that. Why were we not told this at the beginning? I asked the gentleman who took us through the tutorial - is there anything at all I should be asking, that I wished I would of asked, that I do not know about at this time - he said "no. You are totally covered and understand everything." I would not recommend Forte/Chiro 8000 to anyone. The 2 programs work with each other, so I could understand one fee. Not pay one fee now and then they decide to charge you more later on. I guess I should of asked more questions, but I trusted them. How wrong is that?

Desired Settlement: Either refund the cost of the entire program or give us the support we need, the one I pay for every month. Do what you say you are going to do. Fix the problems that we have had since the beginning.

Business Response: November 4, 2014 Complaint ID: ********

Dear Better Business Bureau,
*** ****** ******** purchased Chiro8000 in November 2006. August 2012, years later, the EMR Add-On Software was added. Although the two programs can integrate together, they are two separate software programs. The client mentions a trial period, this was referencing their 1 year of technical support and upgrades that was included with their EMR purchase. Once the initial technical support expires, we have support options available for purchase, although it is not required to maintain active support to run either program. She has chosen only to purchase support on Chiro8000 at this time. The letter indicated that we have not assisted, or "fixed," their technical issues however there are currently no open technical issues with *** ********'s account.

On page 2 of this letter, you will see a signed copy of the EMR Add-On purchase agreement which reflects the amount of EMR support included. You will also see that it is indeed an "Add-On Module." While Chiro8000 and EMR work together, they are two separate programs. Dr. ******** chose to purchase support only for Chiro8000, not for EMR. The client utilized their included 1 year of EMR support through 2013. Now that this has expired, extending their EMR support would be an additional cost, however a discount is provided when you choose to support both programs. These options have been made available to *** ********. Technical support is comparable to an insurance plan as you have the coverage if you need it. After reviewing the account, the most recent call was related to training rather than reporting technical difficulties.

 *** ******** has not communicated that they are currently experiencing any issues with either program. She can contact Client Services if she wishes to discuss purchasing support for the EMR product. We have multiple options available if she would like to move forward.

Respectfully,

***** ******

Consumer Response: In response to Mr. ******'s letter dated 11/4/14, I believe, as demonstrated by their letter, that the Chico8000 product is an egregious 'bait and switch' program. at the initial demonstration of the Chiro8000 product, the salesman was phenomenally kind, patient, and caring. I was impressed. Had I known this was the only person of this kind in the Chiro8000 business, I never would have purchased this product.

The company and staff employed therein have proven to be incredibly inept, inefficient in dealing with customer complaints, generally misleading, and purposefully non-transparent in their dealings with us. We have not been able to come to any kind of satisfactory conclusion regarding the Chiro80000 product and the continuing service complaints, despite Mr. ******'s claims to the contrary.

The numerous issues we have encountered with the Chiro8000 and service thereof:

  • Our office continues to collect pages of documented complaints and technical problems regarding the Chiro800, despite Mr. ******'s statement that, "there are currently no open technical issues with Dr. Wacholz's account". This is simply untrue, as shown by our numerous instances of documentation.
  • Total lack of efficiency in response to complaints. The company shows a willful disregard for customer complaints and concerns. We have not had any kind of adequate response to our numerous inquiries for technical assistance.
  • The company presented initially with excellent customer service and assurances of continued service, up until the actual purchase, at which time the responses became rude, pedantic and condescending, in addition to outright refuse to deal with the complaint. Thus, our feeling that this was a case of "bait and switch" on the part of the company.
  • On the initial demonstration I personally and repeatedly asked for complete transparency, i.e., is there anything else we should be asking that we would have asked? What are the customary/common problems that clients have asked for that will be needed in the future, etc? The sales rep stated we had asked a lot of good questions and we asked more than the usual client. His responses to our in-depth questions revealed nothing in regard to our company needing to purchase a separate program to cover our maintenance or service costs.
  • Mr. ****** claims the option of additional coverage was offered, stating, ...extending their EMR support would be an additional costs, however a discount is provided when you choose to support both". This option was not made available to me, nor was it presented to me, even upon questioning the sales rep repeatedly about this issue.
  • While we were being trained on the Chiro8000/Forte, as the two systems worked congruently with each other, we therefore were lead to believe the technical support would work the same way. When my repeated question of, "Is there anything else we need to know? Is there something we wished we would have asked later on that we are not asking now due to our unfamiliarity with this program?" was met with a resounding "No", we now feel we were tremendously misled in this area, and purposefully so.
  • After our purchase, during attendance at a minimum of two seminars, Chiro8000/Forte's name was mentioned in comparison to other EMR companies. The audience consistently rated Chrio8000/Forte as one of the worst in the field. Not solely regarding the software, but additionally in techincal support, veracity and an overall inability to ameliorate ongoing customer complaints and issues. Unfortunately, we received this information after the purchase of the product.

As a result of these unfortunate events and ongoing issues with both the material goods purchased from this company, as well as the complete failure of their customer service department, I maintain tat Chrio8000/Forte has misled the consumer and acted in a professionally deficient manner.

Sincerely yours,

Dr. ****** ********

Business Response:

December 3, 2014

Complaint ID: ********

 

 

Dear Better Business Bureau,

 

Today we spoke with the office and were able to confirm that the issues they are experiencing are not with our program. Please see the documentation included with this letter showing the case notes from today’s technical support calls. I have also included documentation reflecting the case history for Chiropractic Care, Dr. Pamela Wachholz. Although the client has contacted technical support numerous times over the years, all cases since 2012 have been resolved. The client will be contacting their technician to resolve their current issues as they are not software-related. If in the future technical support is needed, they may call us to discuss these items.

 

If there are any additional questions, please contact me at ###-###-####.

 

Respectfully,

 

***** ******

Consumer Response: I am rejecting this response because: Today we did get into contact with Forte regarding a calendar issue that we were having. The tech support guy (*****) who handled this matter was indeed very helpful . But, our initial complaint through the BBB was a different issue. Please see attached letter for the original complaint. So our original issue is not resolved. 

Business Response:

December 11th, 2014

 

Complaint ID: ********

 

To Whom It May Concern:

 

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to provide further clarification on this matter. We are eager to demonstrate that we have and continue to be fully transparent in our business dealings. We take pains to never create a bait and switch process and are certainly not misleading in how we represent the products. We would far rather not take on a client than take them on, and have them left feeling misled down the line.

 

There have been 13 cases with technical support in the last year, 12 of which are resolved. The one case remaining will need a support plan to proceed as the additional coverages had expired in October 2013. The five most recent cases are as followed: “Issues with the calendar” opened and resolved on 10/22/14, “Patients are not transferring from Chiro8000 to EMR” opened on 9/16/14 and pending valid support to proceed, “Customer is using office ally and they are adding extra zeroes to the claims” opened and resolved 9/11/14, “need help with HCFA update” opened and resolved on 7/14/2014, and “client had root element error – WIN XP” opened and resolved on 5/9/2014. As you can see, we have been able to resolve the majority of their support issues. The only unresolved case is due to not having a valid EMR support plan. We are happy to re-open any cases that they feel are not resolved.

 

We reviewed the case even further by listening to past calls with this client. We did not come by any calls that seemed rude or condescending. We would like to apologize if anything came across that way. Although it is never our intent to be pedantic, we look at the mentality of pursuing the smallest details and correcting errors that way when it comes to our clients systems to be a good thing. Any outright refusal in an area simply comes down from them not having a plan to cover those issues.

 

The process of the product demonstration went as it should since these are designed to go over how the product works. Although nothing was hidden from the client, there are many items that won’t come up. For example, if a client asks if they can use a Unix system with our application, the person hosting the demo would say, “No.” However, without that question being asked, the representative would not have had a reason to bring it up. There are hundreds of such items that could come up, but it does not mean that anything remotely dishonest took place. The initial purchase comes with a year of support which is more than enough time for clients to determine if that is enough for them, or if they want more.

 

It appears as though the client is merging two conversations together. The extended support purchase offer was made separate from the EMR software demonstration. There are two different types of monthly support plans offered, and one always has the option to increase it to the other one. So, even if it wasn’t effectively communicated that there were two, being that the less expensive one was purchased they were not charged for the more expensive one.

 

Although the client has maintained a plan on one level of support, an incorrect assumption was made by the client for expanded support they are in need of. Nothing was prompted on Forte’s level to help that happen. During the product demonstration all features and functionality of the product were discussed as intended. The representative answered any additional questions that the client had. The topic of support not being addressed during a product demo is in no way an indication of dishonesty. It simply did not come up. Beyond the one year of free technical support included with the purchase, extending support was not recommended until 2 years after.

 

We will make another attempt to contact the client to discuss any unresolved issues. Please let me know if there are any additional questions.

 

Sincerely,

***** ******

9/4/2014 Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details
X

Additional Notes

Complaint: This software was "leased" for over $6,000.00 for us to use for medical notes and billing for our Chiropractic office. From day one, we have been trying to submit our claims and have spoken numerous times with ****** ****, the clearinghouse we use to help us since Chiro 800 customer service was either not returning phone calls or just extremely short with us and quick to get off of the phone. Basically the demographics and insurance information and all other info when we download to submit a claim DO NOT transfer correctly and so all claims continue to fail. We have been told by two different clearinghouses that the files are not aligned correct when transferring and it's the software. Legally, we have to get this done ASAP. We had waited an entire day and put three requests in for help and no one ever called us to help. Either we want our money back or I want the tech from Chiro 8000 to call ****** **** up and work the glitches out, but truly would like our money returned. That is a huge amount of money to pay and not be able to use. This matter is causing an effect on our patients who are asking did you file the claim?????????????? We have no one else to turn to and need some help

Desired Settlement: please call me for lender info***** ******* ###-###-#### cellIf any documentation is needed I can fax to you Thank you for your time!! :)

Business Response: We wanted to thank you for the notification regarding ******* Chiropractic. As soon as we received the statement, we reached out to the client to offer further assistance. We were able to address their concerns and resolve all matters in question. We will continue providing support to ******* Chiropractic to ensure that they are satisfied with the product they received.  

If there are any additional questions pertaining to this case, please let us know.

 

Consumer Response:

Thank you for the update and response letter from Forte' Holdings Inc.  I would like to fax or scan some information pertaining to this case to back up some of our issue which are and have been continuous with the company.  *To follow
 
They have, on occasion have returned calls but a good portion of the time, calls are not returned.  When they are returned on person in particular, "*****" in customer service has been both curt and very unprofessional.  But the problem that was and still is the issue is that the software is not compatible with the clearinghouse for filing insurance.  Basic demographics do not transfer smoothly to the claim for insurance filing.  We've spoken with Office ***** and HNS and they have gone way beyond in trying to help is move the information to allow us to submit patient claims.  This has been an ongoing battle and after any update we have to call each clearinghouse to go through the process again.  This should not happen with software.  Forte's customer service man ***** said it will be something we'll have to do for each update unfortunately.  Our patients have been waiting for their insurance to be filed since March and we have to literally hand right each to correct and refax because of this issue.  By doing this it's costing us more ink, more time at the office and patients and a bit perturbed, which in turn will reflect on our office and our services, a bit embarrassing.
 
Please help us get our money back so we can find another EHR before this hurts our business.
 

Business Response:

We appreciate the opportunity to discuss this matter further with you. ******* Chiropractic purchased our product, Chiro8000 and FortéEMR, on 4/11/2014. Since the purchase of EMR, the client has received multiple trainings, as well as, additional training resources for both programs. In our experience with ******* Chiropractic, they have, on most occasions, not been easily accessible. To our knowledge, and confirmed by ***** *******, the billing questions were resolved and that they would call back if further assistance was needed.

******* Chiropractic received two, one-hour trainings with their purchase of EMR. After numerous scheduled training appointments missed by the client, the complete EMR training occurred on 5/15/2014 . Soon after both trainings were administered, the client called in to technical support with questions about the software.  Same questions that were addressed during the two one on one training sessions as well as part of the software manual which accompanies every purchase.. ON (date) ***** ******* called in to Client Services to discuss EMR a bit further. During this call, it became apparent this customer would benefit from an additional customized one on one training focusing only on items they seem to require additional help with. Such training was offered, free of charge, however it was declined by Mrs. *******.

This same day, ***** requested a call from Technical Support and approximately and hour later, a technician called, however, was unsuccessful in reaching her. Dr. ******* called in later stating that no one had called back. Within an hour after the call from Dr. ******* a technician called, but was once again unsuccessful and had to leave a message. The following week, technical support made several attempts at contacting the client, however were unsuccessful due to busy signals and no answer.

The first mention of billing issues took place on 6/10/14 at 6:41 am PST. The technician assisted the office with their billing settings and previewed the claims prior to sending; the client confirmed that everything looked correct. He walked the client through the process of submitting claims to Office ****. To ensure that the claims were successful, a follow up call was set later that morning to allow time for the claim to be processed. He contacted the office at the scheduled time, however there was no answer. After fin**** reaching the office and assisting with the claims process further, he created another follow up. The office was contacted 5 times at the scheduled time; however, each time there was no answer. The following day, he contacted the client and it was confirmed that the claims were processed by Office **** and that nothing further was needed. At this time, they stated they would call us back if further assistance was needed.

The technical support supervisor called ***** after receiving notification of the complaint on 6/19. He stated that he was calling to follow up on recent billing/claims issues to ensure everything was going well, and to see if there were additional questions. ***** explained that she was with patients, “that everything is good and they have no questions." Prior to disconnecting the call, he offered to call her back at a time in which she was not with patients, but declined stating "everything is good.”

The most recent call between ******* Chiropractic and Forté Holdings took place on 7/15. Technical support was in need of additional information from Office **** in order to move forward. The client stated that they would provide this information to Forté Holdings and call back. Once we had this information, we offered to direct them further on submitting claims successfully. We have yet to receive a call from the office.

Our company has not been made aware of any additional issues with the ******* account except the ones discussed in this letter which have been either resolved  according to the conversation with ***** ******* or are still pending resolution due to the client’s schedule limitations.  (For training purposes all our calls are recorded and the  recording of the call where ***** acknowledges “everything is fine”  is available). We continue providing support and assistance for ******* Chiropractic to ensure they like all of our customers are successfully using the software. The extra training offer has been logged in their account and all they have to do is give us the time and we will contact them and answer all their software related questions.

 

Consumer Response:

In response to Forte Holdings in re: to EHR submission, we still continue to have difficulties and most if not all claims flag 'errors'.  We'll be in touch again with HNS and Office **** to see if we can conference call Chiro/Forte Holdings and process our claims.  Both clearing houses have gone way beyond in trying to rectify this mess.  they've been more help than the company we've entrusted Chiro 8000. 
 
I will say when we've spoken with them I the past we do say 'yes' 'if' they direct us in correcting software errors but these errors still continue once updates are made and we were told by CHRIS that we'll have to re-map these with every update. 
 
gain, we have exhausted all efforts and have an obligation to our patients to process claims in a timely manner, we would like our money back for this software.  I will be sending (fax) more documents to back up this and all other emails about this subject.  We've gone round and round and in doing so it's hurting our business financially , we'd like closure and to move on.
 

Business Response:

After reviewing the information provided within the last response, our previous recommendation for a one-on-one training is still available. It appears that the client would benefit from this, not just for efficient use of the software, but for alleviating their frustrations. We have reached out to the client to offer support on their most recent inquiry. Todd, a level three technical support technician, has provided additional information to the client to be sure that they are familiar with solution moving forward. After the claims settings were reviewed with the client, a successful batch of claims was submitted.

 

                The claims that show processed on 8/12 had rejections for “Rendering Taxonomy code Invalid,” “Diagnosis code 5(E) is not billable,” and “Provider Not Found.” The taxonomy code is different for each specialty and is not prepopulated within the program for this reason. The correct taxonomy code for Chiropractic is 111N00000X. The client had a data entry error and inserted an extra 0. This issue has since been corrected by the client after receiving information which is provided during claims training. The client is also responsible for entering diagnosis codes as this information is not something that we would be able to add since we are not the diagnosing provider. The final rejection for “Provider Not Found” indicates another data entry related issue. This rejection occurs when the information on the claim does not match what is on file with the insurance company. Since we are unable to retrieve this sensitive information due to HIPAA regulations, this is also at the responsibility of the provider’s office. These rejections are all due to data entry error.

 

                As of 8/14, ***** confirmed with technical support that their most recent batch of claims was submitted successfully. ***** was then provided additional support beyond that of their claims service to assist with modifying their email settings, Gmail (an outside party). The technician then showed ***** how to create reminders within their program and utilize this feature to notify their patients of upcoming appointments.

 

During a conference call with the client and Office ****, their most recent issues are mapping related. Since Office **** did not have their claims correctly mapped, the information that was correct within the software was being removed by Office ****’s system. To resolve this, Todd assisted ***** with sending a test claim directly to Office ****. Office **** then confirmed the test file was correctly sent from their software. Office **** stated that they would be resolving this issue on their side and would contact the client back with the outcome. After this conference call, Todd has made multiple attempts to contact the client to see if Office **** has completed the remapping issues on their side. Our attempts have been unsuccessful as the client continues to be unavailable or have a busy phone line.

 

If further assistance is needed we hope ***** ******* will not only contact us, but also take advantage of our one-on-one training offer!

 

Respectfully,

 

***** ******

Director of Operations