Technician(****)recommended inappropriate solution to problem. I still have sewer smell after replacement toilet was installed.
****** came to my home on 3/06/14 to fix a toilet leak and sewer smell. He repaired the floor brace and noticed back flow. He called **** for a camera inspection. **** verified the back flow in the drain line on 3/06/14. He did not identify location of the problem. He recommended trying a replacement Flushmate high pressure toilet. I told him this house has higher than normal water pressure. He replied that is not always good. He returned on 3/10/14 and installed the Flushmate toilet. There is still leakage and sewer smell. In addition, he did not install the new water supply line left by ****** and instead took it with him. I was charged for it. I was told there would be no sewer smell after installation of the new toilet.
The original toilet was new (approx $300). I let **** take it and he was very happy to have it.
**** does not make eye contact and is reluctant to answer questions. I asked how to locate the leak. His answer was to dig up the floor until they found it. I was under the impression the camera inspection was to locate the leak.
I later contacted ***** *****. He was defensive and rude. Very unprofessional. Bayer Plumbing does not give estimates prior to performing work as some other plumbing companies do.
****** is very nice and professional. He does a good job, as he was here twice.
Refund of $489.77 (invoice #XXXXXX dated 3/10/14).
$300 for the new toilet taken by *****
$6.00 pus tax for the supply line taken by *****
On March 6, 2014, our service technician, ******, arrived at ****** ***'s home at **** ********** ***** at 8:41am. The issued complaint was to replace shut-offs supplied by us, replace hoses, remove dishwasher, install dishwasher, and check the toilet/wax ring. When we arrived at the residence, we pulled the dishwasher, installed the dishwasher, hooked up the dishwasher, and checked for leaks and found none.
When ****** pulled the toilet, he found that the drain held water. He determined at that time that the drain needed to be have a camera ran through it to determine why as the wax ring was not the issue at this time. The technician that normally does this and that had the equipment in use at the time was not available at the time therefore ****** told ****** *** that we would get **** back out there to have that done. **** actually never came to Ms. ***'s home that day so we are unsure how **** would of verified that back flow was in the drain line on 3/6/14. We have confirmation of that via our truck tracker system and he was at another job location at the time.
At the completion of services on March 6, 2014, Ms. *** was satisfied with work and signed the invoice stating so. A time was set to return on March 10, 2014.
On March 10, 2014, both of our service technicians, ****** & ***** arrived at Ms. ***'s home for service repair work. ****** arrived at 8:35am to go ahead and pull the toilet and have it ready to have the camera ran through the line and **** arrived at 10:50am. **** ran the camera and discovered that there was what is called backflow in the drain where the pipe that is supposed to be heading downwards to drain the line out is actually angled the wrong direction and causing water to be held in one location. At that time, **** gave Ms. *** two recommendations: 1) Jackhammer the floor up and fix the drain which would be extremely costly and involve more than just plumbing costs but also flooring, possibly cabinetry, etc. or 2) Install a PowerFlush toilet which has a PressureAssist which might force it past the backflow. **** could not guarantee the PowerFlush would work but it would certainly be a much cheaper option for Ms. *** than jackhammering the floor and he advised her of her options. Ms. *** chose to have the PressureAssist PowerFlush toilet installed and it was ordered.
On March 12, 2014, **** returned to Ms. ***'s home to install the new PowerFlush toilet. He brought in a second supply line with him because he did not realize that ****** had left one there. He installed the toilet and when he left he took the extra supply line. Ms. *** was only charged for one supply line, the one that was used. When **** removed the old toilet that was not new, but at guess, 1-2 years old, he asked Ms. *** what she would like done with the toilet. As a service to our customers, we hall off old toilets, water heaters, etc. as most garbage disposal companies will not dispose of them for regular customers but we pay extra fees on our disposals each month in order to dispose of these things properly for our customers. Ms. *** told **** that she did not want it and **** brought the toilet back to the shop and disposed of it in our dumpster as standard policy.
In reference to offering free estimates, we actually do offer free estimates.
After reviewing Ms. ***'s bill, this is what we find:
3/6/14 - ******
1 Make-up Material $5.00
2 NIBCO Copper Stop Coupling $1.38
1 Washer Box $22.00
1 Dishwasher Supply Line $15.00
1 Wax Ring $2.00
1 Toilet Flange Bolts $2.00
1 Toilet Supply Line $6.00
1 Trip Charge $25.00
5 Qtr Hours Labor $95.00
3/10/14 - ****** - Drove separately
8 Qtr Hours Labor $152.00
3/10/14 - **** - Drove separately
1 Camera Fee $75.00
1 Trip Charge $25.00
1 Qtr Hour Labor $19.00
3/12/14 - ****
1 Make-Up Material $5.00
1 Gerber Powerflush Bowl $152.00
1 Gerber Powerflush Tank & Cover $154.00
2 Qtr Hours Labor $38.00
Here is the list of Charges that we did NOT bill Ms. *** for:
1 Trip Charge - ****** - 3/10/14 $25.00
1 Trip Charge - **** - 3/12/14 $25.00
1 Make-Up Material - 3/10/14 $5.00
We do apologize that Ms. *** is still having problems with possible backflow in her home. She signed both invoices stating she was satisfied with our services back in March and we were not aware that there were any problems until this letter was received, nearly 5 months later. We would be happy to return and pull the toilet and camera the line at our expense to see if the backflow still exist. Unfortunately, It is very possible that she may need to have her floor jackhammered up and the drain completely fixed.
Please call the office at XXX-XXX-XXXX to schedule this call if you would like us to camera the line at our expense to see how the backflow is at this time.
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The service dates Mr.***** mentioned are correct. However ****** failed to document he found the toilet floor brace was improperly installed stating the wrong type bolts were previously used. He showed me the brace was loose. He drilled additional holes in the floor to secure the floor brace. During this time on 3/6, ****** thoroughly explained the cause of backflow problem and showed me the standing water in the drain after wet vacuuming excess water. I was told there would be no sewer smell after the floor brace was repaired and new wax ring installed. I was told no additional pertinent information by **** following his inspection. **** used the original supply line when installing the new toilet. The original supply line is older and has paint on it, verifying no new supply line was used. During our phone conversation, Mr. ***** told me they could not give an estimate of work to be performed to dig up floor and fix the backflow since it could not be determined how far the pipe extended. I continued to question him and he became very defensive. Bayer Plumbing does not list "free estimates" in their add in the phone book as another company's add does. A close family member had same problem with sewer smell. Bayer Plumbing returned twice before their problem was resolved, charging for both service calls and work performed (documentation is available). It should be noted, no smoke test was mentioned or performed...only a camera was used which verified nothing as the backflow of water was visible without using the camera.
The floor brace Ms. *** is referring to is actually what we do standard on nearly every job when re-setting a toilet. It was a wax ring and toilet flange bolts which were listed on her invoice #XXXXXX from 3/6/14.
We do offer free estimates. Unfortunately, we cannot list everything we offer to our customers inside our advertisements.
The discussion Ms. *** is referring to about requesting an estimate on a job is a job we, unfortunately, are unable to give an estimate for. If we do an estimate, normally we can send a plumber to a job and they can give them a bid for the completion of a job. In the job that Ms. *** was requesting, we were unable to give an estimate because the work she was requesting was for us to locate the downfall location and fix it beneath a slab (an area we cannot visibly see). Ms. ***'s home is built upon a slab and in order to locate the exact location of the downfall we would need to start jackhammering and have our guys work a time and material job. In other words, we cannot give her a quote on this particular job, only send a guy to look for it and fix it and charge by the quarter hour as you cannot estimate where the downfall is that you cannot see since it located beneath concrete where it is not visible. We apologize for the confusion on this.
We did not offer a smoke test because the backflow was directly visible and no smoke test was necessary. If a smoke test were performed, it would of cost the customer at least $10 for the material plus labor for the 2 guys to do the test.
We are still happy to return and pull the toilet and camera the line at our expense to see if the backflow still exist and is what is possibly still creating the sewer smell that is being stated. Again, unfortunately, it may still be very possible that she may have to have her floor jackhammered up and the drain completely fixed.
Final Consumer Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
No recent mention was made concerning the supply valve I was charged for that was not replaced. It is obvious it is several years old. In addition, I initially stated the backflow was clearly visible by ****** and myself. Mr. ***** stated above "the backflow was directly visible". Therefore, no camera test was necessary or could have been performed to locate the downfall. I am requesting a refund for the camera $75, associated labor $19 and $6 for the supply valve for a total of $100. ****** is welcome to replace the supply valve free of any charges to verify it is old and was not replaced.
Final Business Response
We have already stated that we brought two supply valves. We took one back and replaced one. Ms. *** was only charged for one of the valves, the one that we replaced. She is correct that we stated the backflow was clearly visible. The camera test was needed because we needed to find out exactly where the backflow was coming from. Just because water is coming back towards the drain it does not signify to us exactly where in the drain it is coming from. The camera will tell us the depth of the pipe all the way through. The backflow could be coming from the check valve, a clog, or in this case, as we found, backfall (which is different than backflow). This is why a camera test is necessary. Again, Ms. *** signed all the documents stating she was satisfied with the work at the time of service.
We are still happy to return and pull the toilet and camera the line at our expense to see if the backflow still exist and is what is possibly still creating the sewer smell that is being stated. Again, unfortunately, it may still be very possible that she may have to have her floor jackhammered up and the drain completely fixed at her expense.