BBB Accredited Business since

Obadiah's Woodstoves and Alternative Energy, LLC

View Additional Phone Numbers 1660 Whalebone Drive, Kalispell, MT 59901 http://www.discountstoves.net View Additional Web Addresses



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Description

This company offers Sales of heating and hearth products, i.e., boilers, furnaces, fireplaces, wood cookstoves, woodstoves, other heating stoves, chimney pipe, service parts for stoves, accessories.


BBB Accreditation

A BBB Accredited Business since

BBB has determined that Obadiah's Woodstoves and Alternative Energy, LLC meets BBB accreditation standards, which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints. BBB Accredited Businesses pay a fee for accreditation review/monitoring and for support of BBB services to the public.

BBB accreditation does not mean that the business' products or services have been evaluated or endorsed by BBB, or that BBB has made a determination as to the business' product quality or competency in performing services.


Reason for Rating

BBB rating is based on 13 factors. Get the details about the factors considered.

Factors that raised the rating for Obadiah's Woodstoves and Alternative Energy, LLC include:

  • Length of time business has been operating
  • Complaint volume filed with BBB for business of this size
  • Response to 1 complaint(s) filed against business
  • Resolution of complaint(s) filed against business

Industry Ratings Comparison | Chart


Customer Complaints Summary Read complaint details

1 complaint closed with BBB in last 3 years | 1 closed in last 12 months
Complaint Type Total Closed Complaints
Advertising/Sales Issues 1
Billing/Collection Issues 0
Delivery Issues 0
Guarantee/Warranty Issues 0
Problems with Product/Service 0
Total Closed Complaints 1

Customer Reviews Summary Read customer reviews

0 Customer Reviews on Obadiah's Woodstoves and Alternative Energy, LLC
Customer Experience Total Customer Reviews
Positive Experience 0
Neutral Experience 0
Negative Experience 0
Total Customer Reviews 0

Additional Information

BBB file opened: September 24, 2007 Business started: 01/01/1999 in MT Business started locally: 01/01/1999 Business incorporated 09/14/2001 in MT
Licensing, Bonding or Registration

This business is in an industry that may require professional licensing, bonding or registration. BBB encourages you to check with the appropriate agency to be certain any requirements are currently being met.

These agencies may include:

Montana Secretary of State
State Capital 2nd Floor Room 260, Helena MT 59601
Phone Number: 406-444-2034
sos@mt.gov

Type of Entity

Limited Liability Company (LLC)

Business Management
Ms. Annette Chain, Owner Mr. Lawrence Chain, Member
Contact Information
Principal: Ms. Annette Chain, Owner
Business Category

Stoves - Wood, Coal Boilers - New & Used Chimneys - Prefabricated Furnaces - Industrial Heating Equipment Furnace Sales & Service Hydronic Heating Radiant Heating In-floor Heating Fireplace Equipment - Retail Fireplaces


Additional Locations

  • 1660 Whalebone Drive

    Kalispell, MT 59901 (800) 968-8604 (406) 300-1776

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BBB Customer Review Rating plus BBB Rating Overview


BBB Customer Reviews Rating represents the customers opinions of the business. The Customer Review Rating is based on the number of positive, neutral and negative customer reviews posted that are calculated to produce a score.

Customer Review Experience Value
Positive Review 5 points per review
Neutral Review 3 points per review
Negative Review 1 point per review

BBB letter grades represent the BBB's opinion of the business. The BBB grade is based on BBB file information about the business. In some cases, a business' grade may be lowered if the BBB does not have sufficient information about the business despite BBB requests for that information from the business.
Details

BBB Letter Grade Scale

BBB Rating Value
A+ 5
A 4.66
A- 4.33
B+ 4
B 3.66
B- 3.33
C+ 3
C 2.66
C- 2.33
D+ 2
D 1.66
D- 1.33
F 1
NR -----
Star Rating scale

  Average Score
5 stars 5.00
4.5 stars 4.50-4.99
4 stars 4.00-4.49
3.5 stars 3.50-3.99
3 stars 3.00-3.49
2.5 stars 2.50-2.99
2 stars 2.00-2.49
1.5 stars 1.50-1.99
1 star 0-1.49

BBB Customer Review Rating plus BBB Rating is not a guarantee of a business' reliability or performance, and BBB recommends that consumers consider a business' BBB Rating and Customer Review Rating in addition to all other available information about the business. If the BBB Rating is NR then only Customer Reviews are used for the Star Rating.

Complaint Detail(s)

6/1/2015 Advertising/Sales Issues | Read Complaint Details
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Additional Notes

Complaint: I received two quotes from the business that showed similar charges compared to what an online price calculator showed. I later received a call from the salesperson saying their printed price quote was too low. They said more equipment was needed, yet no explanation was given as to why. A few days later the principal of the company called to explain that the quote was based on mounting the burner on the access door if the lesser price was used. However he said that another customer(s) had not liked this configuration due to excess sooting on the waste oil burner. This door configuration is not shown or mentioned on the website. What is shown is that a waste oil burner can be added to a wood only unit at an acceptable higher cost vs the quotes that was given to me. This legitimate config is the one that I think I should have been offered but was not. I have two price quotes that show the differences and screen shots of the website that also show the price options. Some people would call this scenario bait and switch, however I will leave this up to you to decide if that is the correct term. It is possible that a salesperson simply made a mistake and tried to find a way to back out of it with the help of other family members in the business.

Desired Settlement: Website needs to change

Business Response:

To:   Better Business Bureau Online, Attn:  *********

I am replying to a complaint that you received from ******* ****** that said the following.   Complaint Involves:     Advertising Issues
Customer’s Statement:
I received two quotes from the business that showed similar charges compared to what an online price calculator showed. I later received a call from the salesperson saying their printed price quote was too low. They said more equipment was needed, yet no explanation was given as to why. A few days later the principal of the company called to explain that the quote was based on mounting the burner on the access door if the lesser price was used. However he said that another customer(s) had not liked this configuration due to excess sooting on the waste oil burner. This door configuration is not shown or mentioned on the website. What is shown is that a waste oil burner can be added to a wood only unit at an acceptable higher cost vs the quotes that was given to me. This legitimate config is the one that I think I should have been offered but was not. I have two price quotes that show the differences and screen shots of the website that also show the price options. Some people would call this scenario bait and switch, however I will leave this up to you to decide if that is the correct term. It is possible that a salesperson simply made a mistake and tried to find a way to back out of it with the help of other family members in the business.

Since the product in question offers many options, I have taken time to review and revise the information on our website and put together a thorough answer. I have outlined the misconceptions in red letters in Mr. ******’s above referenced complaint.  I will address these specifically herein.  First, I will give you a short version of what happened, backed up by facts in the longer version, and as Mr. ****** has suggested, you be the judge.

The 7030 ******** boiler that Mr. ****** is referring to that he originally requested a quote on is shown on our website here. ****************************************************************************************

We offer wood fired boilers that have several different options, you can order the boiler to burn wood, or wood/coal, or wood/oil, or wood/waste oil, or wood/biomass. 

Short Version:

1.   We made a mistake and priced the correct boiler from the beginning but forgot to add in the waste oil burner.  Instead, we priced the 7030M Wood/Oil Boiler which burns fuel oil, not waste oil.  We provided this information to Mr. ******, contrary to what he claims.

2.   Our Website shows the 7030M as a Wood/Oil at $7700 which is what he was quoted in the first quote. The Waste Oil Burner is clearly shown as an “Option” and this is what was missed in our original quote by *******.

3.   Mr. ****** refuses to acknowledge this explanation and our efforts to make an adjustment to the price. 

4.   We have tried to be reasonable with Mr. ****** and compensate him for our mistake, but that was not satisfactory; he believes he is entitled to more than our admitting we made a mistake, adjusting the price and offering an extra discount for his inconvenience.

5.   Mr. ****** had two options to burn wood and waste oil in a ******** Boiler.  The 7030 and 7030M.  The M means a separate combustion chamber mounted to the rear of the wood combustion chamber, which also has an internal door between the two combustion chambers isolating them when the wood is burning.  This door slides open when the oil burner is used. On a waste oil configuration we change out the fuel oil burner for the waste oil burner and add an additional door so the waste oil burner can be opened and the soot cleaned out easily. 

 

Configuration #1. Waste oil burner mounted to a separate combustion chamber allowing the user to burn wood and/or waste oil.  This is the more expensive of the two options.

Configuration #2.  Waste oil burner mounted in the firebox loading door.  This configuration changes the ******** boiler from a wood burning boiler to a waste oil burning boiler eliminating the possibility of burning wood and /or oil automatically.  This is the cheaper of the two options and is no longer being offered.

6.   As the dialogue developed further, it became apparent that

Mr. ****** wanted Configuration #1 but at the price of Configuration #2.  As a result of efforts to explain why he needs #1 rather than #2 and why #1 is more expensive than #2, some confusion developed in his understanding.  His conclusions in the BBB report are a result of this confusion and unfortunately my explanation did not convince him that just because he thinks he deserves it for free, we have to oblige.  Our website is clear that the Waste Oil Burner is an option.

7.   See the attached emails of our correspondence.  It is disappointing for us to have this type of misunderstanding happen and so we have changed the pricing and information on our website to rectify this.  The bottom line is that Mr. ****** wants the privilege to set his price and expects us to accommodate him.  If you follow the thread of emails that will follow herein, I believe that this is apparent by his correspondence with Obadiah’s.

Long Version Explanation and Corresponding Emails

There are two ways that one could burn waste oil in this boiler.  The first and least expensive option is to add a waste oil burner to the front door of a wood burner and share the same firebox. Several of our competitors have their boilers set up this way. This set up requires that you remove all the wood from the firebox and ash when you want to burn oil instead of wood, otherwise the nozzle will plug with ash and not burn cleanly. For our customers that have winter homes and summer homes, this is not a problem.  They run on wood while they are there and when they go to Florida for the winter, they run the waste oil system and do not switch back and forth.  This saves them money.

 

Some of our customers would rather have the ability to switch back and forth without having to do anything. They prefer to have two thermostats and the boiler automatically switches back and forth. They can fill the boiler with wood and leave for work, if something happens and they can’t get back home in time to manually reload the wood, the boiler will automatically open a door between the wood firebox and the oil firebox, the oil burner with then automatically fire and the boiler will begin heating the structure.  This requires the manufacturer to build the boiler with two separate fireboxes and a special door in-between the two that opens automatically when the oil burner fires.  This is an expensive extra step in manufacturing of the boiler and adds to the cost we must charge for this option

 

 

 

Picture of 7030M Oil and Wood ******** Boiler $7700, (this unit burns fuel oils shown with attached Becket fuel oil burner)

 

Waste Oil Burner Option is $2900 (but because the 7030M comes with a Becket Fuel Oil Burner we would give you back a credit of $600 off the $2900 cost for the Waste Oil Burner, for a total of $2300). A Waste Oil Burner is a much heavier and more complicated burner as waste oil is much thicker and has many more variables compared to refined fuel oils, so these burners require pre-heating the oil and complicated nozzles to operate dependably. ******** also makes just waste oil boilers and are one of the leaders in this field.  ****************************************************************************

 

Pictured below shows the optional waste oil burner system showing all the additional steps that a waste oil burner must employ to work properly. Waste oil is heavier and requires a special pump and a preheater to warm the oil so it is thin enough to go through the nozzle.  We replace the Beckett burner with this unit and mount it to a special door so it can be opened and cleaned for regular maintenance as all waste oil burners burn dirtier than fuel oil burners and create soot.

Pricing for 7030 Wood and 7030M Wood/Oil Combination Boiler

7030 Wood ******** Boiler is $5200, Add Waste Oil Option $2900 Total $8100 (Shares one firebox, not automatic)7030M Wood/Oil ******** Boiler is $7700, Add Waste Oil Option $2900, we credit back $600 for Beckett Burner equals $2300, which  gives you a total of $10,000 for a 7030M Automated Waste Oil Boiler that will burn both wood and waste oil.

******** Boiler Type

Prices

7030 (Wood Only)

$5,200

7030P (Wood and Coal)

$6,300

7030M (Wood and Oil)

$7,700

7030PM (Wood, Coal and Oil)

$8,500

Optional Accessories

Hot Water Coil

$350

Insulation Panels 7030 &7030P**

$600

Waste Oil Burner for 7030M &7030PM

$2,300

Boiler Type

Prices

7040 (Wood Only)

$6,200

7040P (Wood and Coal)

$7,200

7040M (Wood and Oil)

$8,700

7040PM (Wood, Coal, and Oil)

$9,800

Optional Accessories

Biomass Attachment

$8,950

Hot water Coil

$350

Insulation Panels for 7040 & 7040P**

$650

Waste Oil Burner 7040M & 7040PM

$2,300

7040 Wood ******** Boiler is $6200, Add Waste Oil Option $2900 Total $9100 (Shares one firebox, not automatic)7040M Wood/Oil ******** Boiler is $8700, Add Waste Oil Option $2900, we credit back $600 for Beckett Burner equals $2300, which  gives you a total of $11,000 for an Automated 7040M Waste Oil Boiler that will burn both wood and waste oil.

On 9/26/2015 Mr. ****** sent an email to our company requesting information on a 7030 ******** Boiler with Waste Oil option for $8100 which was the correct price. He wanted “the best quote” delivered to his address. My wife ******* provided a quote as requested.

On 9/26/2014 8:33 PM, ******* ****** wrote:

Dear ********,

 Would like to talk about the 7030 with a waste oil option for $8100.  Please give me your best quote to get the unit to me at:

 ******* * ******

**** ***** **

********** ** *****

###-###-####

###-###-#### cell

*******************

 

Hello *******,

Thank you for your inquiry on the Glennwood 7030 boiler.  Our price is as follows:

$7700   Glennwood model 7030M
              includes Waste Oil Option and Insulated panels
$458     Shipping
$8158   Total delivered price

******* *****

Obadiah’s Woodstoves

###-###-####

******************

**********************

*******************

 

View our extensive video library:

**********************************************

Please Note:

I am also a professional firefighter and I fight wildfires all over the United States. ****************************  Normally my daughter ***** and I handle all boiler calls, however on this day I was not in the office but dispatched to fight a wildfire and we were extremely busy this time of year, so my wife ******* handled this email request for a price on a 7030 w/ waste oil burner when it came in.  The Quote my wife provided was in error as she mistakenly quoted a ******** 7030M which is a wood/fuel oil boiler and not a waste oil boiler.  When I called Mr. ******, I offered to honor this mistake and provide him with a 7030 waste oil boiler that he originally requested in his email at $8100 for $7700 and take a $400 loss. This option was not acceptable to Mr. ****** as he wanted the ******** 7030M listed at $7700 and the $2300 waste oil option which would total $10,000 for $8100 at a loss of $1900 to Obadiah’s. I explained that this was not being reasonable and not what Mr. ****** had originally requested a quote for a 7030 and not a 7030M which is pretty clear in his original email.  He claimed that because we had two prices for the waste oil option $2300 and $2900 we were being deceptive and baiting and switching.  I tried to explain to him that we were in fact trying to accommodate some customers did not need an automated system for $10,000 and save them money by offering this. We have now discontinued the less expensive option. Since Mr. ****** did not agree with our offer of resolution, he chose to bring forth this complaint. After 16 yrs. of servicing our customers from all over the world and never once having a single complaint against us, I am totally baffled at the rationality that Mr. ****** has here.  He mentioned to me several times that he was looking for the best deal possible and I can only conclude that this is his way to try to get me to give in to him.

The further email communications I have included that my wife ******* and daughter ***** had with Mr. ****** explain everything in full.  Please read them carefully and judge for yourself. As you can see now, Mr. ****** is asking here for a larger 7040 boiler and showing obvious concern for the waste oil burner getting plugged up. This tells me he has done his research and is not without knowledge concerning his options.

On 9/29/2014 9:13 PM, ******* ****** wrote:

Thank you *******, you can help answer a couple of questions.  If I order a 7040, would it be approximately an additional $1000 as the pricing sheet says, or $9158?  (Perhaps some extra shipping for the extra weight.)  When you say ‘automatic’, I assume this means that as the wood burns down, the waste oil burner kicks in, without any owner interaction.  Right?  Since the waste oil burner and the wood burner share the same firebox, can this lead to potential damage to the oil orifice when the wood is loaded?  Is there some way to protect the waste oil orifice?

 Thank you.

 I will fill out your chimney survey when I have more time.

 ****

 From: Obadiah's Woodstoves [mailto:********************]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 11:47 PM
To: ******* ******
Subject: Re: Boiler wanted

Hi ****,
I posed your questions to ******** and here is the reply.  Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.  (I am checking on the price for you)

 

With the 7040M series , we have a cap that closes off the end of the burner tube.  This cap is opened and closed by a rotary actuator.  Here is how the process works.  Let's say for instance the desired water temperature in the boiler is 180 degrees.  The draft blower mounted on the front door, maintains the water temperature at this setpoint as long as there is sufficient wood or coal in the firebox.  When the wood/coal burns out, the water temperature will drop in the boiler to 140 degrees.  At this point, the front draft blower shuts off and the boiler automatically switches over to oil back-up.  The actuator begins to open the cap.  Once the cap is completely opened, the a switch in the actuator closes and fires the burner.  The burner will then maintain the water temperature at 180 degrees until wood or coal is put back into the firebox.  We do have a override switch on the draft blower to allow it to run below 140 degrees if the owner so desires.  However, the burner must be turned off to keep the draft blower and burner from running simultaneously.  To keep the actuator and combustion chamber free of cresote build up, the owner should allow the burner to run for a little about once a month.

   The waste oil burners are mounted on a swing out door to make servicing the nozzle, retention head, and electrodes easier.  The regular heating oil burners do not have a swing out door.

    Is this sufficiently helpful?

 From: ******* ****** [mailto:*******************]
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 11:31 AM
To: 'Obadiah's Woodstoves'
Subject: RE: Boiler wanted

*****,

 

I am sort of disappointed that the costs are so high.  When I was working with ******* just last September she quoted a 7030 to me with insulated panels and list price discounts for much less money than your quotes.  I would like a comparable deal on a 7040 which should be easier for you to do now since the heating season is over.  I think to match the previous quote it would be $1000 off of the list price.

 

See the email exchange I had with ******* that is below.

 

Also, the new quote that you mentioned in today’s email wasn’t attached.

 

****

******* K ******

**** ***** **

********** ** *****

###-###-####

###-###-#### cell

*******************

 

From: sales [mailto:********************]
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 12:36 PM
To: '******* ******'
Subject: RE: Boiler wanted

 

Hello ****,

 

I apologize for all the confusion. I hope our telephone conversation helped to clarify the pricing discrepancies. To clarify our phone conversation, in order to burn both waste oil and wood, you need to purchase the wood/oil combo unit, which includes the insulated panels. The beckett oil burner is replaced with the waste oil burner. If you purchase the wood only unit, with the waste oil option, you will not be able to burn wood, but only waste oil. The insulated panels are an additional option for the wood only unit.  I have sent you a revised estimate to include the wood/oil combo with a waste oil burner. I have also attached further documentation on the ******** units, to help further your knowledge on the ******** units. Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns. Thank you for the opportunity to be of service to you.

 

Sincerely,

 

***** *****

###-###-#### direct line

  

From: ******* ****** [mailto:*******************]
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 4:03 AM
To: ********************; ********************

Subject: RE: ******** 7070 wood/waste oil combo & chimney Estimate 7924 from Obadiah's

 

*****,

 

I have gone from being convinced that Obadiah’s was the answer to finding the best product on the market, to now looking at other manufacturers once again.  Both you and ******* initially priced the wood only model with a waste oil option and did not insist that it needed to be a wood/oil model; likewise the website also shows this as feasible to order in this fashion.  As I explained yesterday, I do not think that the double costs of both the oil add-on and the waste oil add-on are justified.  Even if the change out of the orifice, the added insulation panels, and added swinging service door are considered, the additional $2300 is still too high.  I would be paying an added $4,800 which would be more than buying a separate free-standing unit.  I think that the fair way to price these options is exactly what is shown on the internet: the 7040 wood only at $6200, the insulated panels at $650 and the waste oil at $2900.  To say that the addition of the waste oil option to the wood only would only allow the burning of waste oil and not wood, means that your products are misrepresented as they are shown on the internet.   Also, why is the rotary actuator that John mentioned even needed if this is the case?

Lastly, I still think that you should be able to offer discounts on these products.  Your $150 consideration is appreciated as a kind gesture, but does not really go far enough.

  

****

 

******* * ******

**** ***** **

********** ** *****

###-###-####

###-###-#### cell

*******************

  

At this stage, I personally contacted Mr. ****** and explained to him again that he had an option. It was either wood, or waste oil, not both simultaneously and automatically.  To achieve the ability to burn both fuels and switch between them automatically, he would have to spend the extra money and purchase the separate firebox on the 7030M or the 7040M and add the waste oil burner. Mr. ****** said he understood that but insisted that I give him the upgrade to the M series for free.  I offered to honor his original quote for a 7030 with waste oil option at a $400 loss to Obadiah’s.   Mr. ****** indicated that was not satisfactory as he expects us to give him a $10,000 boiler for $8100 because he thinks that would be fair and would better fit his budget. 

Once again, we do apologize for the original mis-quote and lack of detailed explanations on our website.  We have updated our website to clarify the options offered and have extended a courtesy discount to Mr. ******, which he has declined.  Please contact me if you should have any questions or concerns.

 

Woody *****

Obadiah’s