We ordered windows in August that were not as promised. We have tried to remedy the situation with the seller, but we still do not have a solution.
We ordered windows in August that were promised to have thin profile frames by salesman Rammone Mann. In addition, the sliding door we ordered was promised to be available with a choice of handle color (e.g., chrome, white, etc.), and we chose a chrome handle. Upon delivery in late August to early September, we noticed that the windows were not the thin profile we were promised and that the door had a white handle instead of chrome. We contacted Rammone immediately, and he stated that most if not all of the windows were ordered incorrectly by them and that the door did not actually have a handle choice as he had represented. However, he said that the windows that we had ordered (under his promises that they were thin profile) were not actually available in the thin profile that we had requested.
We attempted to work with Rammone to remedy the situation for a month or two. After initially representing that the vinyl windows sold to us would be thin profile, he now told us that aluminum windows would be better suited to provide a thin profile frame. We thus asked Rammone for aluminum samples, and he said that he would be able to provide the samples shortly. During this time, we also asked to have the incorrect windows and door removed from our garage, but they are still there today.
Multiple calls to Rammone over the course of this month or so went unanswered, so we contacted *** ******** (the owner of the business). *** told us to simply work it out with Rammone. After another month of unanswered and unreturned phone calls, we contacted *** ******** again in early to mid December. At this time, *** promised a refund of our money and said that he would come pick up the windows. However, he said that he would not have the money to refund us until the end of the month (December). We agreed to wait until the end of December for a refund.
By early January, we had not receive the refund promised by *** ********. Accordingly, we gave his company a fair and honest review on the site Angie's List. We also contacted *** again to see what the delay in refunding our money was caused by. This time, however, ***'s tone with us changed from being helpful and apologetic to angry and rude. He had been notified of our review on Angie's List, and was quite upset by it.
*** reneged on his promise to refund our money, saying that we had signed a contract and that we were bound by it. We reminded him that the contract was signed under false pretenses and promises made by Rammone, and that we had been diligent in attempting to remedy the situation with him and Rammone over the course of the past few months. However, in the interest of settling our dispute without legal or other intervention, we said that we would continue to work with Rammone to get what we wanted and were promised.
Rammone came out to our house again in mid January, and said that he would be able to provide us with samples of aluminum products that he thought we would like. Hoewver, the samples he provided were the same type of vinyl windows with the thicker profiles (just like the ones we had already rejected). We notified him immediately that these samples were not what we wanted, and again asserted our desire for aluminum windows. Rammone stated that he would get us samples of such windows promptly, as he "could get a sample of any type of window because he dealt with every manufacturer."
Just as before, however, these promises turned out to be untrue, and multiple calls and text messages to Rammone went unanswered and unreturned. Rammone has yet to provide the requested window samples as well (at the time of this writing, it is February 23, over a month after he promised to provide samples to us). It has become quite clear to us that our attempts to remedy this situation with *** ******** are futile, and that we are being strung along by Rammone and *** without hope of ever receiving the windows and doors that we requested over five months ago.
At this point, it has become clear to us that we will not receive the windows or doors that we were promised over five months ago. It has also become clear that *** ******** and Sons is not a company that we would like to continue a relationship with.
Accordingly, we are seeking a refund of our deposit for the windows and sliding door that we ordered back in August. The deposit was $2376 on a contract for a total of $6796 worth of goods and services.
According to our records: When ******* **** arrived at appointment, he visited with ******** ****** about 45 min. to 1 hour about jobs in neighborhood providing list of jobs completed. He showed sample of windows and went over all technical features, including exterior design and all components. She loved the window and agreed that was the product she wanted in her home. They then spent about 15 minutes looking at pictures, taking measurements and talking price. By then, ***** arrived home. ******* reviewed everything previously discussed with ********* showing him pictures and samples. He had ******* measure some additional windows to replacle upstairs. They reviewed pricing and decided to stay with original proposal. However, they later came back requesting to do upstairs windows. ******* wrote up contract to replace 10 windows and patio door. He explained that there is a 35% non-refundable deposit required because these windows would have to be custom made and would not fit any other home. They agreed and both signed the contract. After several of the custom windows were installed, they did not like the look of them. ******* offered several options to replace with smaller frame and more glass exposure. They said they would think about it. They wanted to totally change product, style, profile and go with an aluminum window. Several options were offered to resolve but they wanted a product that we could not offer. We have been in business 54 years and are open with 80% of manufactures, but customer would not budge. ******* made several trips and dropped off samples and provided a list of 22 homes in their neighborhood of jobs with their original product purchased. We would be glad to install the custom product they purchased. Again, they put a down payment on and signed a contract for windows that must be custom made. That is why we take the time to do a professional consultation with the customer to explain the product, show how the product looks, works, benefit features, pictures, as well as references in the neighborhood. Over the 3 hours spent on the initial visit, they made a decision based on understanding and viewing the product and information presented. They put down a non-refundable deposit because they were custom made and signed a binding contract. As previously stated, we would be glad to complete the install. They do still have the remaining windows at their location that they have not paid, so this is also a cost that we have absorbed
Final Consumer Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
At the outset, I would like to note how disappointing it is to see this response from *** ******** and Sons. Much of the substance of the response is simply untrue, and many of the points raised in our complaint go unanswered. However, given their dishonest track record in dealing with us so far, it is not very surprising. I will now address each of their "points" in turn.
First, ******* used the samples to merely show ******** what the glass package would look like in the windows that we were looking to order. In fact, right after showing the sample to ********* she asked ******* whether the windows could be made to appear like the ones already installed, i.e., whether they would have the thin profile frame. ******* confirmed that they could, stating that he could "make the frame smaller" to match the aesthetic that we were looking for. When I, *****, arrived home, no sample was in sight and ******* merely confirmed that they had discussed various options. He did not show me anything specific, much less a sample or even a picture of the window. We did discuss windows for the upstairs portion of our home, but did not ever ask for a quote for them (and thus, never "later came back requesting to do upstairs windows" as the response claims).
******* provided a quote to us at a later point in time (approximately a week or so later). He reassured us again at that time that the windows would be as we wished and would have a thin profile frame. When discussing the operating windows for the side of our house, he told us that there was absolutely no difference between the single hung design and the double hung design except for the operation. That is, he told us there would be no difference in the size of the frame profile between the two options and that the profile would essentially match the thin profile that would be seen in the larger picture windows. When discussing the sliding door with us, we asked what options there were for the finish of the handle. ******* told us that there were many options, including a chrome finish on the handle which would match the rest of the door handles in our house. So, we ordered the door with the chrome handle option. Based on all of these representations (that turned out to be entirely false), we signed the contract. We understood that the deposit was required and why it was required, and had no problem paying it (since we expected to get what we were promised).
When the installers showed up with the windows, I immediately noticed that the handle for the sliding door was white and not chrome. I did not have time to immediately review the frame profile of the windows, as I was on the phone with ******* discussing the lack of a chrome handle on the sliding door. During that conversation, ******* reassured me that it would be no issue to change out the handle for a chrome one as we had asked. During that time the installers had begun installation of the first window, and once it was in place I noticed that the profile was a bit thicker than I had imagined given *******'s descriptions and assurances to us. I took a picture of the window and sent it to ********* and she confirmed that the windows were not what we wanted (remember, I was never shown any samples, and was only told that the windows would look like our current ones). I then told the installers to halt what they were doing immediately, but at that point they were on to the second window. I called ******* to discuss the issue, and during that conversation we came to the conclusion that he would come back out to see the windows before proceeding further. Because the second window was removed at that point, they needed to install the second replacement window. Note that only two windows were installed, not several as noted in the response.
When ******* came back out to see the windows, he told us that the chrome handle was not actually an option on the sliding door that we ordered and that he was wrong in telling us so. He also, after looking at the windows that were installed and the order sheet for them, told us that the windows were ordered incorrectly and that a double hung profile was ordered for the picture windows instead of the single hung profile that he had intended to order. When asked what the double hung versus single hung profile meant, ******* told us that the double hung windows (such as the ones ordered for the side of the house) had a thicker frame profile compared to the single hung windows. It became clear to us that every window ordered was not what we had wanted or what was promised to us. Remember, ******* said that the windows would be similar to the ones we already had, that the sliding door would have a chrome handle, and that the double hung windows were exactly the same as the single hung except for the operation. Moreover, six of the ten windows were admittedly not the ones that should have been ordered anyway.
We noted our displeasure with the windows that came to us, and began our discussions with ******* regarding replacements. He said that it should not be a problem since he had ordered the wrong picture windows anyway. We did some research on our own and discovered that an aluminum window might be a better option for what we were looking for as they usually have thinner profile frames. ******* agreed, and told us that he could get samples of aluminum windows to us quickly. However, after many unanswered calls and voicemails to ******* over the course of a few months, no samples were ever delivered. After many months of trying to get a refund (see our initial complaint), we finally received samples from ******* that were substantially similar to the windows that had initially be brought to us. Only one had an aluminum frame, and the rest were vinyl. We told him that the samples provided were not what we were looking for, and gave him three or four specific companies to look at for windows that appeared to be what we wanted. Of those, ******* said that he could only get samples of one (Don Young windows). Yet, he never delivered a sample of that brand because he again failed to respond to calls and text messages of ours (all of which I still have in my phone, if necessary).
To address some of the other points made in the response, I will note that while the response says *** ******** and Sons are open to 80% of manufacturers, they only brought samples of approximately three or four different manufacturers. While I am not entirely sure of the number of window manufacturers, I am fairly positive that there are more manufacturers than five or six. I also note that ******* dropped the samples off at our house in two trips, not the "several trips" that the response claims. Further, while the response states that we still have possession of the windows (this is true), we have made several requests for someone at *** ******** and Sons to come remove them from our house. In fact, we have been asking for them to be removed since we found out that they were not the correct windows last fall. All of the requests went unanswered, however. Finally, while the response creates the illusion that they have absorbed a large cost from the windows they ordered for us, the actual amount that they have "absorbed" is only $581.43. Remember, though, that most of the windows were ordered incorrectly by them and would normally require a cost absorption on their part anyway.
In the end, it appears that *** ******** and Sons would like to hang their hat on the fact that a contract was signed and a deposit was put down. Those facts are not in dispute, and have never been. While their response tries to muddy the water with red herrings and entirely avoids the issue of their dishonesty throughout the process, the bottom line is that the contract was signed by us because of false promises made to us by ******* ****. This is not only a dishonest business practice, it is an unlawful one (see the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act and its provisions). Through their response, it appears that *** ******** and Sons is more interested in saving their name with the BBB by continuing their dishonest ways than actually resolving the issue with us. We sincerely hope that the BBB sees through their deception, and facilitates a fair and equitable resolution to this issue.