Cardoza's has not replaced our floor after saying they would. They are now calling and being rude/aggressive from me attempting to hold them to this.
I purchased a new home that had an $8000 allowance from the builder for flooring. We worked with Mike Cardoza of Cardoza Flooring directly for the material selection and pricing. We also paid them the overage directly.
We were told, that the floor we chose (bamboo) is harder then oak. We told Mike and his staff numerous times that we have large dogs and young kids and we needed something very durable. They reiterated that bamboo was one of the strongest materials. I also sent a follow up email to confirm as I was a bit hesitant about the bamboo as it did not seem like they used it much. Mike responded with "We install a lot of bamboo. It is a very stable product and much harder then wood."
Within a few days of moving in it became clear that this was not true. The floor was getting deep gouges everywhere.
We brought this to Mike's attention after about two weeks from moving in and sent him pictures 11/25/2014.
He replied, " Bamboo finish would not react any differently than hardwood. We have rarely seen this happen to hardwood."
We were back and forth approx one week before he asked me send the photos of the floor to the distributor. 12/4/2014
During this time he mentioned taking the manufacturer to small claims court if necessary.
The manufacturer responded that I could pay for an inspector to come out; but that scratches are not covered under warranty. I reiterated my frustration that this was a "bad product" not up to the level it was sold to me as. Also that it had begun to cup in one room. Mike said he would deal with it after he got back from vacation 12/15/14.
I gave Mike an extra week before checking in as no one called/ contacted me. This became the norm. Every step required me to call repeatedly for updates.
Mike came over 1/2/15 and reiterated that he had seen this before and that he would stand behind the product even if the manufacturer did not. He said he would need to try to take them to small claims court but that can take some time. I agreed although I asked what happens if we lose. He diverted.
Three weeks later Mike emailed claiming he could not find my number and we need to talk; the warranty was not going well. An inspector told him that this would likely not be under warranty so Mike did not know what else to do.
I sent the distributor an email about the issue referencing the warranty claim. The distributor responded that they had not heard anything more from anyone about this since the initial claim on 12/5/2014. They also passed it to the manufacturer who essentially said this was a bad floor choice and I needed to take up that mistake with Cardozas as there are much stronger bamboo options. 1/30/2015
Never was a difference in bamboo's surface or style of build discussed with us by Cardoza's. It was only discussed as it is on their website that it is all very strong and durable.
This pattern of redirect and subsequent contingent delays continued for months until today, 5/26/2015. Mike had stopped returning emails so I went to the store to get the replacement proposal I was promised three weeks ago.
Mike was not at the store and no one knew what I was talking about. No notes, nothing in the computers. They got Mike on the phone and I could hear him yelling at them. His staff said I had to take it up with Mike.
Two hours later Mike called yelling that I am "pissing him off" and he is not going to deal with me anymore. The next sentence is that he will replace the floor for only the difference in material cost (this is the first time I had been told something tangible without it having to be contingent on a lawsuit against someone). Mike then goes back to screaming such that I cannot say anything. I am trying to over-shout him at this point and he said that I did not buy the floor from him and I have to work it out with my Builder as Mike sold the Builder the floor and not me. This way we don't have to deal with each other.
I see the events of today as yet another delay. This should be done and over with by now. Any issues such as taking a manufacturer to small claims court should be between that company and Cardoza's; it should not be part of my replacement. Nor should such issues delay my replacement.
Mike stated many times that Cardoza's would resolve this problem however there was always another hurdle or contingency. There was never an honest and direct conversation.
I want nothing more then what Mike said he would do today while shouting at me; without another contingency tied to it such as the Builder's approval.
I will accept a complete and proper replacement using the flooring of my choosing. This is still to be determined now that I know what is covered. The only acceptable cost would be the cost of the new flooring above the cost of the bamboo currently installed. This should be at the store's advertised, non-installed price of the new flooring then deducting the advertised price of the current bamboo. Comparing what I paid for the bamboo versus the list price of another floor is not acceptable. Miscellaneous costs, other material costs, and labor costs should not be a factor.
Removal and re-installation of the base boards, including painting is to be covered by Cardoza's as is the removal and disposal of the existing floor.
June 15, 2015
Better Business Bureau
Let me start off by saying that Mr. ***** is not our customer. He purchased a floor through a builder that we have installed flooring for years and stands by us in this matter. I will not address the personal accusations but I will give you the facts that we can prove.
***** came in looking for flooring for a house he was having built for him through a builder we install flooring for. At that time he explained he had children but didn't s say anything about animals. We would have remembered that. When we sell flooring we advise the people how the floor needs to be cared for and what the warrantee covers, this process is automatic for all of our sales associates as well as myself. All warrantees are governed by in this case the NWFA the write the manuals for Hardwood and Bamboo.
***** stated that he wanted flooring for his new home and he didn't want carpet, the flooring allowance from his builder is for carpet. We give him numerous options, Hardwood, Bamboo, Vinyl, LVT, LVP, and Laminate. All these floors are an upgrade and the customer pays the difference direct to us.
***** zeroed in on Bamboo and Laminate. We explained all of our laminates are high pressure laminate and will not scratch. ***** purchased laminate for the second floor and natural Bamboo for the first floor. Bamboo is not a wood and we always tell the customer that it's not a wood. We also don't make claims that any Bamboo products are resistant to scratching.
We have displays, we show flooring, and we try to educate the customer to the best of our ability tell them of past issues or non-issues. The person buying the floor makes the decision as to what they want for their home.
All Hardwood and Bamboo flooring are rated for hardness by the Janka scale which is an industry wide ATSM system of measure. The hardness of all the Trillium Bamboo products are listed right on the sample board which we would be more than happy to send you a picture of. There are 26 samples of bamboo on the Trillium display. 25 of them that measure 2600 to 3800 on the Janka scale which is the hardest of all flooring, one is listed at 1180 that's the one ***** picked. For someone too say they didn't realize that a Trillium Bamboo product was soft after having the sample board for two weeks and having done research is to say at least questionable. We felt that ***** made an educated decision and knew what he was having installed.
He asked us if we installed this product before and what the results were. We told him we install a lot of natural bamboo and never had any issue with them. This is the product he chose over all the other products in that line.
Before we address the next point you need to understand that the NWFA which writes the manual on how Bamboo and Hardwood flooring needs to be installed and cared for states, that a customer needs to control their environment after the install. That means the floor needs to be protected, that the ambient air in the house needs to be controlled. We explain this to every customer it's automatic. I had two sales associates who were in the day I met with ***** and heard this conversation. One sales person was listening because he was learning about the product.
***** came into the store to tell us that he was unhappy with the floor. He complained about it scratching easily, he told us that his dogs were scratching the floor and he felt that dogs should not scratch floors. This was the first time we heard about the *****'s having dogs. ***** stated that he told us from the start about his dogs we say he didn't. His comment at the time was he just wanted us to know that the floor was not what he expected. We suggested to ***** that if there was an issue with the floor we should investigate it. If the floor was at fault there were steps we could do to get it warrantied. We also told him that if the floor was at fault we would replace it and we would go after the manufacture ourselves as long as it was a warrantied issue and not abuse in the eyes of the manufacturer. If it was not warrantied we have a company policy that if a customer is unhappy with their choice of flooring after the first year of install and the flooring is not warrantied we will work with them to correct it. Even though ***** was the builder's customer we told him we would provide him with the same service. Our policy is we will replace the floor its self and the customer pays for the labor to install it. In this case because the builder is a valued customer we agreed to supply the labor also but only for a product and labor of the same or lesser value.
I went to the house it was winter there was at least 2 feet of snow around the property. There was mud all around the house there was no grass at all just dirt and mud up to the house. When I went in to the house there were dog prints of mud and a lot of grit on the floor. There was a sliding glass door at the back of the room with mud prints and grit all around. There was no protection from the outside at either door from the outside. There were no mats at any of the entrances and no runners or area rugs anywhere.
When I left the house I ran by what I had seen with a certified flooring inspector that we have used for years and ask if he would check the situation out and give us a report. He told me that it would be a waste of time and money given what I described to him that this was not a warrantee issue that the home owner needs to control his environment. This is the same response we got from our supplier and the manufacture.
We explained this to *****. We told ***** that we would be willing to replace the flooring and the labor for something he chose from our store that was equivalent in price anything over that he would have to take care of or work it out with the builder. We would not be responsible for baseboard as we don't touch baseboards or paint. In this builders houses we install the floor the builder does everything else.
The Builder backs us in this matter.
***** after weeks of investigation chooses this Bamboo floor over twenty five Bamboo floors that are 3 to four times harder,over other floors with scratch warranties that we show him and he has installed in other areas of his home.
Nowhere on any of the literature or warrantees does Bamboo say it is resistant to scratches nor do we make that claim.
Given what we saw when we went to *****'s home any Bamboo or Hardwood would have had issues.
The product hardness is listed on the sample board for him to say he does not know the hardness of the floor we find questionable.
We explain to all customers how they need to care for a floor and even suggest they go to the NFWA, TIA, web sites.
As a replacement to the Bamboo ***** picks a LVP floor that is more expensive to install then the floor he has and feels he should not have to pay for it.
We told ***** that if our offer is not acceptable he should contact the builder who he bought the house from and we would work it out with them.
***** states that I became abusive. All I will say to this is about midway thru this issue **** started to bully us into giving him a new more expensive floor at no cost. This started early on It was at this point I would not speak with ***** unless there was another sale associate around. Even when we spoke on the phone I had another sales associate present to witness the conversations.
I had a proposal on my desk for a week it explained what we would do to remedy that situation. I told ***** of this and he never made time to come in and meet with us. He did come in and spoke with *** in my office, according to *** ***** was very belligerent. I was on vacation with my family. ***** knew that I was on vacation because he and I were sending emails back and forth to each other. I told him we could meet when I got back. When I spoke to him on the phone about this his response was why should there be a proposal you should just order it and install it.
If you have any further questions feel free to contact us. We can provide written documentation to everything stated in this rebuttal through eyewitnesses and/or product boards.
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Other than them recalling events very differently than I do and that I can document my versions as well, I see no proposed remedy to the situation here. They only state what they have, according to them, "said" previously at various points.
Is the below list of small statements within larger paragraphs the proposed solution?
Since I can not highlight, italicize, or underline I will just copy and paste.
- We will replace the floor its self and the customer pays for the labor to install it.
- because the builder is a valued customer we agreed to supply the labor also but only for a product and labor of the same or lesser value.
- We would not be responsible for baseboard as we don't touch baseboards or paint. In this builders houses we install the floor the builder does everything else.
So the proposal is Cardoza's will cover the cost to remove, and replace the existing bamboo floor and any materials they commonly provide in a new construction situation and any labor they provide will be at no cost to me except for the added cost of the new floor vs what my current floor is? So glue, nails, screws, saw blades, and so on is not on me to cover the cost of in any situation as its a one for one trade off?
The exception is baseboards and related labor to remove, replace, and paint?
For total materials if the new floor is $7/sq-ft. and mine is $6/sq-ft I have to pay the $1/sq-ft difference?
Like wise if the material cost of the new floor is less than mine, I expect that retained as a budget to be applied to other overages such as added labor cost to install.
To be clear I expect that if my type of flooring (nail down wood) is usually $2/sq-ft. installed and so is the replacement type, even though its different so instead of nails it needs a plywood and glue, I would not pay any difference unless my floor is $2/sq-ft to install and the new one is more.
If these are accurate, then I assume if the stores listed price of install is $2/sq-ft for both floor types but in a builder situation its actually cheaper for one then I am not picking up that difference as they are both listed for all customers as the same?
Additionally I ask in my complaint that the cost of one product vs another is to be at the stores normally advertised prices and not what I negotiated on the current floor as a credit and the new floor is at list price which would be substantially higher.
Does the above accurately summate Cardoza's current proposal that is being offered by them to me with no additional sign off needed by any other party such as the builder, a supplier, or any other 3rd party?
It is not contingent on any further action by a builder, supplier, courts via small claims, ect?
The exception being if I seek to have a third party such as the builder approve and they are covering the added costs listed above such as overage of material, flooring, install, or non-common flooring items such as baseboards?
Final Business Response
Better Business Bureau
We have stated our position on this matter already.
The current letter from Mr. ***** is the same as the letter before we don't see how we can help someone who is not interested in our help. We made an offer in good faith to help out a customer that was not satisfied with a floor he purchased from us. It is not a warrantee it is an offer of relief.
They choose the produced, they knew what the product was. We installed the product they choose at the builder's request. There are no warrantee issues here.
As in all of the installs we do for this builder we install the floor only. The subfloor, the baseboard, and whatever else needed to be done was done by the builder or home owner.
That being said we told Mr. ***** that we he could choose a floor of his liking and in his budget.
We would install the floor exactly like we did the previous floor this means no baseboard, no subfloor, no painting of walls that would be extra or up to them.
We will at our cost remove the existing floor.
We will at our cost install the a new floor.
Any cost over what Mr. ***** paid for the existing floor he will need to pay up front.
The Floor that Mr. ***** has installed he paid $ 4.50 a sq. ft. for that would be his credit limit.
Since Mr. ***** seems to have issues with ******* ******* any contact that Mr. ***** has with Cardoza Flooring from here on in should be with his partners *** *******
This offer is good for one year from date of purchase.
This is what was discussed in at the start and nothing has changed. Mr. ***** would need to make an appointment to come in and meet with *** to discuss finale costs if any.
Final Consumer Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Deducting a negotiated floor price from a full list price along with adding in excessive materials costs that build back in installation prices is unacceptable. This ends up being more to warranty the floor than the original floor installation.
I will not conduct another "meeting" with Cardozas as I have no way to ensure they are not going to continue to delay an actual resolution once it is out of the BBB written accounts.
The original price without installation of the bamboo was $4.09/sq-ft. Cardoza's has claimed their installation was $2/sq-ft. Cardoza's would need to offer a credit of $6.09 per square foot toward a new floors advertised price. If materials are required, I want an itemized list of them and I will compare them against the going cost of these supplies at Lowes or another home improvement store.
At most I am willing to split the cost of base board removal and reinstallation as Cardoza's recommended this specific floor for our life style with large dogs and children and it was terrible advice. They have plenty of blame in this and I should not have to bear the brunt of their mistake. I will get a quote from the same contractors that installed the original finish work in the house.