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Pinnacle Cart, Inc.

Phone: (480) 686-2992 Fax: (602) 252-6167 View Additional Phone Numbers 7227 N 16th Street #270, Phoenix, AZ 85020 View Additional Email Addresses View Additional Web Addresses


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This company offers E-commerce business software.

BBB Accreditation

A BBB Accredited Business since

BBB has determined that Pinnacle Cart, Inc. meets BBB accreditation standards, which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints. BBB Accredited Businesses pay a fee for accreditation review/monitoring and for support of BBB services to the public.

BBB accreditation does not mean that the business' products or services have been evaluated or endorsed by BBB, or that BBB has made a determination as to the business' product quality or competency in performing services.

Reason for Rating

BBB rating is based on 16 factors. Get the details about the factors considered.

Factors that raised the rating for Pinnacle Cart, Inc. include:

  • Length of time business has been operating.
  • Complaint volume filed with BBB for business of this size.
  • Response to 8 complaint(s) filed against business.
  • Resolution of complaint(s) filed against business.
  • BBB has sufficient background information on this business.

Customer Complaints Summary Read complaint details

8 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 5 closed in last 12 months
Complaint Type Total Closed Complaints
Advertising/Sales Issues 0
Billing/Collection Issues 1
Delivery Issues 0
Guarantee/Warranty Issues 0
Problems with Product/Service 7
Total Closed Complaints 8

Customer Reviews Summary Read customer reviews

2 Customer Reviews on Pinnacle Cart, Inc.
Customer Experience Total Customer Reviews
Positive Experience 2
Neutral Experience 0
Negative Experience 0
Total Customer Reviews 2

Additional Information

BBB file opened: September 12, 2005 Business started: 08/20/2003 in AZ Business started locally: 08/20/2003 Business incorporated: 08/20/2003 in AZ
Type of Entity


Business Management
Mr. Mike M. Auger, President/CEO
Business Category

Internet Services Computers Hardware, Software & Services

Products & Services

Pinnacle Cart, Inc. sells the following brand(s): PinnacleCart

Pinnacle Cart, Inc. offers the following product(s): eCommerce Software , shopping cart software

Hours of Operation
M: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
T: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
W: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
Th: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
F: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
S: 9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
Su: 9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
H: 9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
We are only closed on Christmas Day
Method(s) of Payment
Visa, MC, Discover, Amex, Paypal
Refund and Exchange Policy
We offer a free 14-day trial and for that reason do not offer a money back guarantee.

Additional Locations

  • 7227 N 16th Street #270

    Phoenix, AZ 85020 (800) 506-0398 (480) 686-2992

  • 1

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Additional Phone Numbers

  • (800) 506-0398(Phone)

Additional Email Addresses

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Complaint Detail(s)

5/7/2014 Problems with Product/Service
4/24/2014 Billing/Collection Issues
4/17/2014 Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details

Additional Notes

Complaint: The issue is that the platform purchased has not functioned properly and does not offer the necessary requirements outlined in in advertising and pricing structure. Orders did not properly filter to the order page, and money would be taken from customers, but would not show as orders in the admin area of the cart. The only way to know about some orders was to be alerted by our bank that money was accepted. Other orders accepted payment and showed up as orders but did not list any details, causing us embarrassment by having to alert our customers that we received an order but did not know what products they purchased. Proper orders were also listed as abandoned. We do not consider this a properly functioning e-commerce cart. We have lost several hours working on the phone at our expense trying to get shipping straightened, when the end result was a coding error on Pinnacle’s end. An e-commerce platform should provide the efficiency of allowing online customers to place items in their cart and purchase with ease. This remains an ongoing issue as customers have contacted us that deleted items cannot be removed from the cart, therefore they cannot place the order. The embarrassment that Pinnacle Cart has caused is overwhelming. After reaching out to Pinnacle about this last issue, we were advised to not delete any items from the admin area (even when items are no longer available); however ******* *** Store was charged overage charges for space. This is contradictory to the advice Pinnacle staff is giving. Deleting items also causes customers to locked out of submitting an future orders if the deleted item was placed into the cart during a previous session and not removed. It is even more embarrassing that our most loyal customers have resorted to calling in orders because they know our website does not function properly. After submitting countless tickets, these issues, along with others, have failed to be resolved by Pinnacle Cart. They choose to close tickets rather than simply solving the issue. They refused to honor the performance guarantee when a refund was requested. They can access the multiple tickets submitted and see the countless orders that were blank or abandoned (yet payment was received) by looking in our admin area. We also have several emails stating our frustration with the cart, and do not get any help. There only response is they cannot pinpoint the problem, and close the ticket, rendering us helpless and with an inefficient cart. We have requested cancellation and was alerted that we would be put on the cancellation list.

Desired Settlement: I am requesting an apology and a refund of the total amount paid to Pinnacle Cart since service started over a year ago. I believe this to be reasonable on our end due to (1)the amount of business lost as a result of cart failures and (2) ***e spent trying to solve issues alone on our end after reaching out numerous ***e to Pinnacle Cart and not receiving any help. Pinnacle Cart has damaged ******* *** Store’s reputation among clients and has caused humiliation by forcing ******* *** Store to contact several clients directly asking them what they ordered because there are blank records on the site. We have countless text messages, emails, and other documents to prove that the cart has failed to work properly from the beginning and major cart issues remain unresolved, thus proving that Pinnacle Cart has offered poor customer service.

Business Response: We are in an unfortunate and regrettable situation with ******* *** Store and apologize for the inconvenience they experienced. 

Over the last 10 years we have serviced over 40,000 accounts and tens of thousands of trial customers and have always put our best foot forward with the software and our support of the software. 

To paint the entire picture of our relationship with *******, we can provide statistics and data to more clearly see what really happened. ******* became a customer of Pinnacle Cart in August of 2012. They have been a client with us for 18 months. 

In 18 months, 21 support tickets were submitted, 21 support tickets have been closed. Over the same period we have fielded 29 phone calls. All calls were answered live or their voice mail was returned. Bottom line is this was a very active account for our company. It is important to note the contact with our company was almost exclusively with ******** *******, not *** *****, the person who submitted the complaint. We feel the reason for noting this communication of events can be somewhat skewed when done through a third person and we feel that is a factor in this case. 

Our service is offered as a "pay as you go" model. When ******* purchased the store in 2012, the chose a plan that was $29.95/month. 

Over 18 months, their investment in our monthly service is only $539.10. The majority of their investment was with web design that they ordered seven months ago. The cost totaled $1500. The design work was completed to their satisfaction. In fact, we did additional design work for them in January for almost $200. So just on the surface, it is really hard to see how much they disliked the software and our company when they continually ordered more services.

But let's address their key concerns. 

Whenever issues arise, and they simply do and will as a software provider, we rate the severity of the issue and handle it according to a level 1, 2 or 3 response. Level 3 response will always include issues related to checkout. *******s issue was related to checkout and it was escalated to the desk of the CEO, Mr. **** *****. In February, Mr. ***** personally reached out to their owner and began to have dialogue in an effort to understand, detail and fix any issues. He provided their owner with his cell phone number and had many text messages with him to keep him apprised of progress. During this ***e, we dealt with ******** who is very challenging to deal with and quite unprofessional. She would scream, berate and swear at our support staff who were only trying to help. In the end, we certainly tried to do our best but she became part of the problem. In fact, one of the early ideas we had to better understand the issue was to turn on another piece of software that would track and monitor all activity on their store. She refused to allow us to do this and until Mr. ***** stepped in an demanded it we would have never figured out the issue. Her position delayed the fix by a few weeks. 

It is also important to understand how we fix issues. First the process begins by identifying the issue. In this case, they were able to show a few orders that had issues. Step one complete for us. We then must go into a mode to try to replicate the issue because there are so many variables that you end up looking for a needle in a haystack in some cases. This was definitely one. When we can replicate, we then rate the issue as noted above.

After we turned on the software to assist us in tracking the issue happened again about 10 days later. It is also important to note that the issues referenced did NOT happen all the ***e and was very sporadic and infrequent. Though we do agree, it was an inconvenience for the ******* customer. 

We went through our process, deemed it to be a Level 3 concern and immediately began working on the fix. The issue only occurred when a user made a purchase from an iPad with iOS7 AND used paypal express on checkout. Honestly, it really is amazing to actually find issues like this. From the day we were able to identify the issue until it was fixed and ready to be deployed to our customers it was five business days. We reached out to ******* when it was completed and let them know we could deploy the fix on their store. Unfortunately, they didn't stay current with our releases and they would have to upgrade their store to get to the most recent version of the software. We can't possibly provide fixes for all of the 95 different versions of the software we have had over the last ten years. They didn't want to do the upgrade on their own and didn't want to pay us to do it for them. 

While all of this was going on, our CEO did a review of their account and offered their owner compensation for the challenges without being asked. Their plan was moved from $30/mo to the $60/mo plan without any changes in what they paid! He saved their account $12/mo or over 20% + plus doubled all of their resources. It is important to note that nothing related to our terms and conditions requires the concession offered. We feel that their current request is simply based upon the idea that the generosity offered by our CEO would simply be rubber stamped and we would somehow pay them back everything they paid us for services we provided. 

In the end, their cart issues covered the last two months they were with us. 

To close the issue, we have decided to credit the last two months of service to have the issue go away. That is an additional saving of $59.90. 

In addition, our CEO continues to honor our "Guarantee to Increase Sales" offer. The challenge is *******'s owner will not provide the details that Mr. ***** requested three ***es. In order for us to validate the guarantee, we compare the last six months on the previous provider they used with the first six months using our system. This is a very simple and straight forward request that goes unanswered. Even though they are no longer a customer, we will honor this offer until the end of April. 

Here is the last email chain related to this topic. Please read from the bottom up. The conversation is between Mr ***** and the ******* owner. 


From: **** *****

Sent: Monday,
March 31, 2014 11:23 AM

To: *******
*** Store 

Subject: RE:
Refund for ******* *** Store

*** I’m not sure why you need to try to read into something I’m saying.  

I have made it very clear that we stand behind our product, provide services that satisfy thousands of customers and are willing to pay you back money based upon our guarantee. It is you that choose to not comply with our simple request to validate. 




From: ******* *** Store [mailto:sales@**********] 

Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 9:44 AM

To: **** *****

Subject: Re: Refund for ******* *** Store


So what I am concluding here is that you do stand behind your product, you do not provide the services that that you agreed to provide, and you have scammed us out of the money we paid.


In conclusion, we do make every effort to make all of our customers happy and from ***e to ***e recognize that we can't always make it happen. We take ownership for having software issues, 

We also take great pride in the overall quality that supports thousands of store owners and how quickly we turn around issues when identified. 


Consumer Response: Better Business Bureau:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID *******, and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

The support tickets that Mr. ***** is referencing should never have been closed. To simply state that "Pinnacle Cart cannot duplicate the errors" that many of our customers experienced does not resolve the issue. An e-commerce cart should successfully allow customers to order with ease, and allow the company to fulfill that order based on the generated invoice. This is something Pinnacle Cart's software DID NOT DO. Also, Mr. ***** did not reach out to the company. I had to request to speak with the CEO on multiple occasions before finally having the opportunity to communicate my frustration to Mr. *****. Mr. ***** simply stated that they needed ***e to fix the issue. This response came months after Pinnacle Cart's support staff was first alerted of the issue. There were multiple no call backs, and no texts back. No problems were solved. Again, simply not solving the problem and only offering that "the error cannot be duplicated" is a lack of ownership for a failing cart. Our customers were repeatedly having issues, so it was not a one ***e instance that could not be duplicated. We were simply passed on the to the "next level" of support, yet tickets were closed and the problem still remained.

Mr. ***** should communicate with his support staff. The "added features" that were supposedly added did not fixed the issue. We were advised to add features and were in a bind. We were willing to try anything to make our cart work properly. The support staff was also suggesting to leave items that we no longer offered for sale on the back end to avoid problems with completing orders. As advised, we left items open on the back side of the cart but switched them to inactive. We were charged overage charges for taking the advice of the support staff.

I was present for the conversation between ******** and ***** regarding the error of the cart not charging shipping on some orders. To state that ******** berated Pinnacle Cart's support staff is simply wrong. It is just another instance of Pinnacle Cart placing blame, yet again. ***** first accused FedEx and then went on to accuse ******** of not setting up the shipping rates correctly. The end result was that Pinnacle Cart was sending code containing the wrong state abbreviation, even though my staff had properly entered it into the back side of the cart. I was out the cost of paying my employees to try to solve the issue as well as the $200 freight cost. This was a CODING error on Pinnacle's end, and was completely out of our hands to fix. ******** never received an apology for this instance as well. ******** has been highly praised by our customers and is highly professional.
At no ***e did ******** deny turning on dev mode. She wanted the issue resolved any way possible. Pinnacle Cart wanted access to our PayPal account, as Pinnacle blamed PayPal for the issue. Her hesitance was with allowing another company access to secure financial information. She did not feel that she had the authority to grant access. After discussing with our Accounting Department, we granted them access. The result was "Pinnacle Cart cannot duplicate the error".

At this point, I just want to alert all other businesses that Pinnacle Cart is a pure scam. The issue was never about the money. We would not ask to be reimbursed if the cart had in fact worked properly. Our main challenge is that Pinnacle Cart did not offer a cart that accurately recorded and accepted orders online. We stayed with the company because we did not have the ***e to invest in a new cart provider. To simply not fix a reoccurring error is unacceptable. We supplied all the necessary information such as: order numbers, confirmation numbers, emails to our customers, and even our Paypal account information to try and help. Pinnacle Cart chose to close the tickets with no resolution. I have attached two documents proving that we had to reach out to our customers when these errors occurred.

We have since switched to another cart provider and have not had a single issue. Orders come through smoothly and even tripled in amount. Mr. ***** is welcome to compare our new cart to our "cart" with Pinnacle Cart. When Mr. ***** states that he has never had an issue like ours, I would disagree. Pinnacle Cart's Facebook page is covered with negative reviews as well as other online forums. The bottom line is -- Pinnacle Cart did not offer a functional e-commerce cart and did not provide the proper customer service/support to fix the errors.


*** Scheer

BBB's Final Determination: After reviewing the position of all parties, BBB determined that the business made a reasonable effort to address the complaint. However the consumer remains dissatisfied.

9/14/2013 Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details

Additional Notes

Complaint: In December of this year I was looking for a new website and had several conversations with Pinnacle Cart and a rep named *****. I decided to go with the $199.00 month plan for full website design or manged service plan is what they call it. ***** told me several times if I was not seeing a increase in traffic and sales that the site is 100% refundable for all the money i had put in it. After three or four times talking to ***** i went ahead and purchased the manged service plan. I was then passed onto a **** **** who was to do everything i need to make the website function. I wait almost 1 month before things started to happen and I was told several time "oh that is extra that is extra". After the website was made and up and running I was then passed onto a Ms *******. She told me that if i wanted the SEO I was promised it was going to be a large amount of money outside of the manged service plan. I then asked her what am i paying for?? She said 2 hours of work per month and anything over that is an extra charge and all the SEO did not fall into that 2 hours a month. I then proceeded to complain and was transfered to a supervisor that stated that she would give me 2 months free for all the trouble i had in the begining. I said ok for now but still not happy. I then emailed Ms ******* several times to change little things here and there. During this time i am still not seeing anymore traffic or sale to my site. In the middle of June i asked Ms ******* in several emails to please add my store hours to the site with no reply. I waited till the end of July to email her again for I was sick and in the hospital. When i finally got ahold of her sher was like hmm i never got anything from you and she will get right on it. As soon as July 22 or there about came around my website said it was having issuses and to call 1-800-506-0389 and press # 2. I then proceeded to email Ms ******* and she said she would look into. As of today July 31 2013 I still have not heard from here via phone or email. As of 2 days ago i have cancelled my service with Pinnacle Cart and have no desire to have them service or work on my website any longer. I was called today by Rachel in the billing dept and was told since i had the 2 months free i am not owed anything. This is 100% unacceptable.

Desired Settlement: A refund check in the amount of $800.00

Business Response:
Mr. ********* entered into a 1 year contract with our company on Dec
26th to 1.) Host his website and 2.) provide 24 hours of service over
the course of the year.  The hours can be used upfront or over the
contract for design or cart setup services.  Mr. ********* in our opinon
used more than 3/4's of his contract hours up in the first 5 months. 
Mr. ********* made his recurring payments on the contract on the 26th of
Jan, Feb, & Mar in a total amount of $800 USD.  However his card
declined for Apr & May.  We continued to provide service and during
that time made attempts to bring his account current.  He overused his
hours, but we wanted to work with and retain the customer to so in addition
the two months of fees we didnt collect we also provided another 2 mos free to
help him.  Between the 4 months he paid for, the two months we provided
services (Apr-May) with no payment received and the 2 mos additional
time we provided we lost money on this account and he received 8 mos of
service and only paid for 4 months.

In the end we think you will
agree we actually provided more than allotted hours.  Below are the
facts in summary from details we have from recorded calls, emails and
notes in our CRM system

12/26/2012 - account setup and hosting begins

1/3 - Our Rep reached out to him about the plan and next steps, Left a voicemail
1/5 - Our rep reached out again left a voicemail
1/7 - Mr. ********* requested he wanted some HTML added to the product description fields.
1/15 - We tried reaching out
1/21 - Mr. ********* called in requesting help setting up ******** store and other questions
1/22 - Our team reached out and helped him with site design and ********
1/29 - Our team reached out and scheduled a call to go over product descriptions for his website.
2/8 - Returned customers voicemail
2/12 - worked with Mr. ********* on general questions for cart setup
2/21 - worked with Mr. ********* on general questions for cart setup
- worked with Mr. ********* on questions and his ticket ********** as
his store setup was nearing completion and wanted to go live with *****************
2/25 - Our Project manager called to Mr. ********* and left a message to review site
- Customer called in and wanted to add a custom contact us page
(besides our default that is with the cart system) and referred us to a
link of one he liked and asked us to help implement the code
3/13 - worked with Mr. ********* on general questions for cart
4/1 - Mr. ********* called in and wanted to schedule 2 hours of time for more work
4/2 - Reviewed all subjects and scope of work for the the scheduled call, we again reviewed what is included in his package as well
4/5 - Reviewed design of site
4/11 - reset his email password
4/16 - updated his google checkout parameters
4/17 - Mr. ********* called in asking if there was a way to force publishing of ebay listings
4/18 - Mr. ********* called in about getting an SSL for his site
- Mr. ********* call about potentially using a different merchant
services account, but customer stated he was using ****** and ******
Checkout due to being 2 years out of bankruptcy and not able to qualify
5/7 - We created and delivered a new logo for his website/company, customer inquired about setting up a blog
5/7 - we recommended some blog options for him.
5/9 - customer called in and unhappy that he has to pay for an SSL
5/10 - customer called in again and is unhappy that he has to pay for an SSL
5/10 - customer called in and wanted to get additional email addresses created
5/21 - billing spoke to him about his past due, he said he wanted to cancel we explained it was a one year deal.
5/28 - We provided 2 mos credit on his account even after his card had declined the past two months.
- We called customer on his ticket ********** - he was getting email
sent to him from people who were listed as spam senders so our filters
were bouncing them back.  We asked him for examples to make exceptions
for him on a limited basis
7/26 - he emailed in to design services, we replied back asking how we can help - nothing replied back from Mr. *********
7/29 - customer called in wanting to cancel - we explained he had a one year agreement.  he asked about a refund
- We followed up on his refund request and informed the customer, he
had a one year agreement, he had only paid for 1/4 of it, we gave him 4
mos for free, but contractually he is still obligated for remaining 6

In closing - with the hours we have spent, the free
services provided (4mos) and the customer still owing for 6 mos of
service we feel his request for his initial 1/4 of the contract is
unfounded.  We are happy to release Mr. ********* from the remaining
contract to make this amicable and will not seek the additional monies
he owes, unless he wishes to pursue this further.

Thank you for your time in reviewing.

Pinnacle Cart

BBB's Final Determination: Business offered a resolution. Consumer did not pursue further with BBB and the matter was assumed to be resolved

9/14/2013 Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details

Additional Notes

Complaint: Custom development: I paid $38,000 for custom web development. Contract was signed in March 2013. Work was to be finished June 7th. By June 7th they weren't finished. A couple weeks later **** **** announced they were all finished. (In spite of the fact that there was zero communication with me regarding the development). Lo and behold, they'd only done a small fraction of all the work. **** said that "he didn't know" the rest was supposed to be done. Whatever. They proceeded to do a sloppy job at the rest of the project. **** **** said they were pulling in extra resources to get the project finished asap. Well. It's now the end of August and the whole project is still not finished. Just a few half-baked pieces here are there. My company is suffering very much since we have no website / no sales. Communication: There seems to be no communication in the Pinnacle Cart company - not among staff, nor with clients. Everything about the project was laid out with **** in March in much detail. But when it came to do the work, **** **** seemed to be completely out of the loop. Furthermore, the supervisor **** **** outright admitted to me in a three-hour phone conversation that "he had no idea the amount of work that was involved; he thought that it was a simple matter of 'design and data import'." Well, good grief, for $38,000?! Design: Now let's talk about design. It also took way longer than initial promises. The design staff couldn't seem to get the elements necessary together. So many conversations with ******* ******* about how we would like things done. Emails with pictures to explain it. Online examples. It took them so many redos to finally get it more or less right. The ******** and ******* designs looked whipped together like something my 8-year-old nephew could have done - didn't match the main site at all. The design was supposed to take 4 weeks. It's now been 5 months and it's still not done. I haven't seen anything about the mobile site design yet. Pinnacle has been a 6-month headache so far. They've charged $38,000 and haven't delivered You have to hound them constantly: "Are you getting things done? Are you getting things done?" They constantly promise: We should have something for you by this evening. We should have something for you by tomorrow. I've had to make a new contract with a company called "************" - I'm having a MUCH better experience with my new provider. Meanwhile, PinnacleCart still hasn't delivered, and we have begun legal proceedings with the bank to recover our losses. **** ******* - ******** *****

Desired Settlement: Refund me. I've set up a website with another company

Business Response: With regards to the complaint, we are in direct contact with Mr. ******* of ******** ***** and both parties are actively working together.  More information will be posted as it becomes available.

BBB's Final Determination: Business offered a resolution. Consumer did not pursue further with BBB and the matter was assumed to be resolved

12/14/2012 Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details

Additional Notes

Complaint: I recently subscribed to to host my shopping cart for my business. Before I even subscribed to them, they were very responsive which is why I decided to do business with them. I was told that I would receive my login information and store access within 24 hours. I had waited 3 days, in which I had to email the customer support questioning when I will be receiving my information. Once received (after 3 days) I was able to login to shopping cart and design my website. I had a few questions and had emailed my customer support, who encouraged me to use him as a point of contact...but I did not receive any responses from the emails that I had sent them...until 2-3 days later. By then, I had figured it out by myself after spending half of day researching. My main complaint is that I spent several days customizing and designing my cart, and it end up deleting all my information...which I had saved many times over again. They expect me to pay a monthly fee of $78.95 which I have no problem doing if I had customer support at less within 24 hours, and that the product that they are adverstising actually works. I

Desired Settlement: I want a refund for $78.95.

Business Response: We have worked directly with the customer and have resolved the issue. She has been working with Jeff Little and we resolved all outstanding issues last night.

Consumer Response:

Better Business Bureau:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID 9332406, and find that this resolution would be satisfactory to me.  I will wait until for the business to perform this action and, if it does, will consider this complaint resolved.


****** ****



BBB's Final Determination: Consumer accepted resolution offered by the business.

11/14/2012 Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details

Additional Notes

Complaint: on 7/19/12 purchased cart, source code and phone support for a total of $1300. trouble from the beginning with the install. support tried to fix some issues. a lot of basic functionality is not there. can only ship from one location. real time ship methods UPS, FedEx did not work-they did fix this. customers can not print orders. much more. Tried to have issues fixed by asking for custom programming - they came back with ridiculous prices. tried to work with them, didn't happen. invested lots of time and effort to get this up and running. after over 70 days still could not go live. and the nonchalant approach to solving our problems. this cart is not equipped to do commercial business on the internet. have read the other complaints and reviews. we could have easily written them ourselves. wrote and asked for refund. they refused. offered to give me back $200 for the phone support. they keep citing terms of service, saying we agreed. did not sign or agree to anything. the only thing we agreed to is not to disclose the source code. We are willing to sign an affidavit if required to facilitate getting a refund. So, we are not entitled to a working product?BBB lists them as an "A" rating, are you kidding? I am a BBB member and we give customer service. everything we sell is guaranteed. We have a "A" rating, but we actually do the right stuff. After all the complaints they have you give them an "A" rating? If this is how BBB does business then I guess we will pull our membership because I don't want to be lumped into as class with people who do business like this.

Desired Settlement: Refund $1230.00 $1300 -$70 for install = $1230this is the only option.

Business Response: I'm very disappointed we haven't been able to make ***** happy and will do my best to make it right. Though we strive to make everyone happy, we recognize that after servicing over 40,000 customers it is impossible to please everyone and we are extremely proud of just a dozen or so complaints in the 9 years we have been in business.

is a timeline of events related to the Katstar Account. I think you will see a very different side to the story that was originally presented. Before reading through all of it I will summarize.

We offer a free 14-day trial that can be extended to ensure that every customer has the chance to test drive our software. ***** didn't do this or certainly didn't check on the features that he is claiming are broke when the reality is the features never existed in the software to begin with. He then purchased the cart and then separately purchased the source code and agreed to terms that void any money back guarantee due to the risk we take and providing this sensitive information. he has no rights to any refund. The fact that he now is building is own software when he has access to our code base is not only a MAJOR concern of ours, but potentially creates a legal issue for the Katstar company.

So even though we would win any chargeback request and have offered him a discount that isn't deserving, we are still willing to take the high road and resolve this issue with one final offer.

We will double the $195 to $390 and he would provide a written statement ftating that he will never use any aspects of our code base in building his own software.

Here is the timeline

7/19 – he bought a license and source code

8/13 – he had a dev request for shipping calcs by dimension we quoted $800

8/18 – he bought a 1 yr phone support plan

8/30 – he put in a second dev request with 5 page plan for dimension shipping, handling rules with conditions, additional attributes for products (volts, OEM part#), search and order printing.  He stated $2500 is what he deemed to pay as some was improvements to the cart in general.  We told him it was $4,500 for the work to accomplish his list.  His response to *****ie was “He think the ballpark is too much he can afford 1500.

9/20 – he reach out to tom for full refund

9/20 – I called frank he had no VM,

9/21 – ***** and I spoke I explained our policy regarding source code.  He said he didn’t want to fuss with it anymore and that he had hired a developer to build a cart from scratch.  I reminded him of his NDA around the source code.

9/21 – I spoke to Mike Auger, we returned an offer to refund the support via email:



I appreciate the time you took today to talk to me about your business processes.  I took your case to our CEO, discussed your reasoning and told we talked about your understanding of our policy.  For the first time I can remember we are making a concession here.  I have been authorized to refund the phone support, but I am unable to refund the license or the source code cost and the time we took to install the software on your server..  Our Terms of Service agreed to during purchase and to use the software is very black and white on the matter for which our CEO has told me must be upheld in light of source code being purchased.


I would hope you would reconsider having us make the development changes for your business.  I gathered from our call you are smart business person and you recognize the value of time and efficiencies.  I honestly feel from our talk today that our software foundation with your changes would be a better fit.  We know that time is precious in business and we know first-hand software development so to that end I feel you developing from scratch is going to cost you 10x if not more and your timelines will be delayed by months if not close to a year.  This doesn’t even speak to addressing best practice security let alone getting your cart pci certified which fast becoming a requirement for accepting card online. 


Let me know if we can forge ahead, rebuild our relationship and expedite any timelines to help your business reach the next level.


9/22 ***** replies:


From: ***** **
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 1:33 PM
To: 'Jeff Little'
Subject: RE: Possibilities


Hi Jeff,


It was nice speaking to you on Friday.

I appreciate your effort to try and resolve the issue.

I have attached a letter rather than a large email.


If only we had been contacted sooner we may have been able to do something different.

Now the course is set.



***** **
Katstar, Inc.
Phone: ###-###-####
Customer Service is our most important Product!


9/26 – *****s ask again for the refund

9/26 – I respond:




I reviewed you letter yesterday.   I do appreciate your kind words about our conversation as my sentiments are the same.  I have been directed that we cannot deviate from our terms previously discussed.  Your question regarding that is if you go to order any product or service from our site prior to it being purchased you must agree by checking the box and reading the terms before anything can be ordered.  A copy of the terms are additionally public facing here:


This would cover the license of the cart:

This would cover any services:



Best Regards


9/26 – ***** Writes:

From: ***** ** [mailto:*****]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 1:48 PM
To: Jeff Little
Subject: RE: re-send : Possibilities


Hi Jeff,


It sounds like pinnacle thinks that we are not due a refund for a product that falls short.

Once again we did not agree nor receive any such agreement.

Even if we did, does that mean that we have to accept a product that does not work properly?

And that after 2 months still can not be used?

I think not!

I attempted to be reasonable about this.

The bottom line is that I want a refund.


Tell whoever is directing you to re-think their position.

Make reasonable settlement with us and we go away.  The alternative is not so good.

This is the last time I will address this.  After this it will be out of my hands.


I will take a non-response as a negative response and proceed accordingly.


Thank you for your help.


Best regards,


***** **
Katstar, Inc.
Phone: ###-###-####
Customer Service is our most important Product!


9/26 I issue a final response:



Per my original email I cannot deviate from our discussion or what I originally told you we could make a settlement on.


As I wrote in the original email “I took your case to our CEO, discussed your reasoning and told we talked about your understanding of our policy.  For the first time I can remember we are making a concession here.  I have been authorized to refund the phone support, but I am unable to refund the license or the source code cost and the time we took to install the software on your server..  Our Terms of Service agreed to during purchase and to use the software is very black and white on the matter for which our CEO has told me must be upheld in light of source code being purchased.


Having purchased source code and agreeing to its terms including the NDA we cannot falter on keeping the terms of service intact.  They we accepted by you at time of purchase and as the software is our livelihood having given you access to the open code we cannot deviate from this course. 


I tried my best and I am sorry I was not able to change company policy in this case.  I do appreciate your patience exhibited towards resolving this.

Consumer Response:

Better Business Bureau:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID *******, and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.


***** **********


We spent $1300.00 and after 70 days could not use the product.  I tried to work with Pinnacle but it was very difficult getting to talk to someone.  Only after I asked for a refund did I get any attention.  You can read the support tickets and judge for yourself.  The length of time to resolve, everything I asked for was impossible or overpriced.  I had to work on a lot of issues myself.  How could anybody be using this when even the real-time FedEx method didn't work.  They finally fixed it, took 21 days.  I finally engaged a programmer to build our own cart which will cost us much more. 

I have attached letters and support tickets.  I tried to get them to do custom work for me that they could use to improve their product.  Basically my proposals and requests fell on deaf ears.

It isn't right that the product should be so troublesome.  We should receive a refund, not to mention all the time we spent preparing our data that now is wasted.

$300.00 isn't going to cut it.  We spent $1300.00 plus time spent solving issues that should not have existed, like FedEx, etc.
In the interest of putting this thing to bed and moving on, we will accept half the amount $650.00. 
That is meeting halfway, we will accept nothing less.
As originally stated we will sign an affidavit regarding the code source upon review and approval by us as we have no interest in doing anything with the code.  Said code will be completely deleted from our server.  We will not speak of or talk about Pinnacle cart to anyone.
We will do our best to forget that we ever heard of it.

You should note that prior to purchase we looked at the BBB rating of "A" for pinnacle cart.  I am concerned about the rating system.
I have been in business for 40 years.  My word is my bond.  You have my word as I have set my name to it.

***** **********, President Katstar, Inc.


Business Response: We believe this case would require a settlement through arbitration as we have made two offers on refund and the customer won't accept.

In addition to resolving his concern, we are equally concerned about this customers access to our copyrighted source code and his intention to build something very similar.

BBB's Final Determination: Consumer accepted resolution offered by the business.

2/23/2012 Problems with Product/Service